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Originally Posted by SeedFreedom

What i am trying to say is, god or religion defines something as "wrong" and expects us to be able to resist or face consequences if we don't. But some are led by "false prophets" or have never learned the truth(i.e. never had contact with anyone from the right religion), so how can we expect them to follow? If god doesn't give me the right tools to see the truth, why should i be punished for it?

But you do have the tools. This is actually why we're discussing "humans having original 'goodness'".

Some religions state those who believe in false prophets will never reach heaven, no matter how good a person they were.

I am not trying to say religion is bad or anything like that. Just as a person growing up in a non-religious house and learning science at a young age makes it hard to believe in a religion or a god who just goes against all laws of nature. I want to see how people deal with all the contradictions that i see in religion.

In regards to my one and only religion that is Islam, the contradictions you see are merely the result of misinterpretation. It is the individual and not the religion itself, you see. Furthermore, there are more "good" Muslims than "bad" ones---its just that stereotypes have *that* much power.

On the case of how it goes against all laws of nature, there really is no *definite* "laws" of nature. Its just a system created by science for simplifying reasons for others to understand better and faster---which are...in my opinion, actions that are understandable.

My suggestion is to think more *intuitively*, or dwell on the outside of the "boxes"----"boxes" that are science and other practical or "real" issues.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Your baby brother could just possess an interest in the other toddler and is trying to show friendliness in the hopes that he shows friendliness back?

Perhaps...but It could also be what I'm suggesting.

Societies come together because they want to protect themselves. I don't want the caveman 10 feet away to come into my cave, bop me on the head, and take my mate.

It's *logical* and *intellectual*, I understand that. But what about the *families* that come together, not for *safety*, but for *affection*?

Yes, you could also take that *affection* as a logical way of removing social depression---an *also* necessity towards survivability. But you can't remove that *innate tendency* of man to be "good".