[Ryus]

@Gooral (or anyone wanting to debate Rosemary's power or read a debate on it), I appreciate the gesture of taking me up on the challenge of trying to convince me of Rosemary being an AO but I failed to see any new ideas in your post and you didn't tie in anything from this chapter. In short the way you approached this was the same way you would have months ago and I've debated all this before and formed my opinion based on those debates.

I was hoping you'd find some way to address my concerns with some new ideas and/or stuff from chapter 98. Thanks for giving it a go though .

So, before you begin to read what I wrote in response... please realize I slammed half of what you posted and disagreed with the rest. If you don't want to get into another debate with me then feel free to skip my response. I understand, you know how much of a hard ass I can be on a position. Since I felt nothing had changed based on your response... my response hasn't changed either and we both know each others positions. However if you want to debate back feel free too... though I don't know how busy I'll be in the following days. So I can't guarantee a quick response.

Spoiler for Space:

Originally Posted by Gooral

Why no one noticed the power burst? Because Teresa was the eye and/or because every other warrior capable in youki sensing was far away.

There's no proof she was the organization's eyes... we don't even have proof she could detect aura's from afar.

What proof do you have the others were all far away?

Originally Posted by Gooral

For example no one besides Galatea could sense Isley even though he went full power.

Prove to me one of the other 19 warriors didn't sense it. I'll give you that no one else sensed it that far away but were talking half a continent here. How do you know no one of the 19 unaccounted for warriors wasn't closer.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Besides, we don't know what youki is exactly and how it propagates (or does it propagate). Teresa and Rosemary were surrounded by mountains and we don't know wheter it dissipated.

Need I remind you of Raphaeal finding Irene in the mountains...

... or Irene sensing Clare from the mountains

... Galatea sensing the Fab 4 from the other side of a mountain... or Clare sensing Galatea sensing her from the other side of a mountain... (I admit she had doubt)

To me the sensing in Claymore is all about 4 things...
1) the quality of the sensor / training level / if there distracted or not
2)The range of the sensor
3) The suppressing ability of the one being sensed
4) there distance from the sensor

though a 5th was just introduced

5) An overwhelming object blinding the sensor to all other yoki

In short... it's like beyond visual range radar but is a passive sensor rather than a active one (so I guess it's more akin to sonar ). 1 is the computing power 2 is the strength of the radar 3 is stealth abilities of the target (too close will always be sensed) 4 is just a check to see if the target is in range and 5 is ECM or an EMP.

Originally Posted by Gooral

We also don't know whether it's possible for some claymores to have their youki at bay, for example Teresa at 0% youki could be sensed as Teresa without a doubt from 10 m, while in 10% from 100 m (numbers from a hat) and a weaker claymore that couldn't suppress youki that well could be sensed from 20 m at 0% youki release.

Well besides your pure supposition and arbitrary numbers you bring up a point... but it's clear they tracked Teresa to that village some how.

Spane me that

Originally Posted by Gooral

As I've written in the post you''ve replied to somehow they couldn't sense Teresa or Priscilla either, at least not accurately.

and that proves what exactly... Oh you said something, now go part a sea or something and then maybe I'll listen without thinking for myself.

Originally Posted by Gooral

"I'd heard she would surpass Teresa. When she awakened, it was as if her latent abilities were released." Rubel said "I'd heard", the problem with that is they couldn't measure Teresa's and Priscilla's auras accurately in order to do that. I have no idea how did they come up to that conclusion but it was ridiculous.

Finally, a debatable point. I'll counter with the very point you bring up... What do you think gave the organization the confidence needed to say that when Teresa had never released her Yoki? Do you think these evil geniuses just felt that way... for nothing?

We just haven't seen the whole story of every character. Your reading too much into what we can't possible know... hence it's irrelevance. Authors included needed facts unless that want a big plot twist (and even then there's typically hints). If Yagi reveals this exact point you so cling to as the plot twist of Teresa's domination over Priscilla then I'll personally apologize to you. Until then Yagi hasn't given us cause to use this as the source of Teresa being superior to Priscilla

Originally Posted by Gooral

Rubel showed it a while later when he answered Clare's question. He said: "we'd weigh the organization's strength against Priscilla's power and let the chief decide". At that time, when he said that, they didn't even complete Alicia, yet he told Clare they would "weigh the org's strength".

You fool... That was the first clue Rubel was a spy for the other side.

(I'd love to see the look on your face right now as you realize the truth of that )

Originally Posted by Gooral

If he knew Priscilla's strength they wouldn't even bother to consider defeating her.

Hello... spy who wants them to commit suicide. He tell them it's a great plan.

Originally Posted by Gooral

They would need at least two abyssals for that and they didn't even have one. Which leads us to - they knew shit.

I sticking with that line being the first clue of Rubel being a spy seeking the organizations destruction.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Even if they measured Rosemary's and Teresa's power because they were so far away they would know nothing about their powers like it was in Priscilla's case. Besides, it was easier to sense Priscilla that was much stronger than Abyssal than Abyssal.

They would still know she awakened and send someone to check to see if there was any awakened Rosemary remains...

Originally Posted by Gooral

I don't think Teresa fully understood how strong she was, that's ridiculous way of thinking Ryus.

If Rosemary was as strong as an AO then she would know exactly how strong she was after beating her. After all you believed the was the organization's eyes and would have been trained to realize when she sensed them.

I'll try to ignore your taunt since I seem to have a history of making you mad when we debate this.

Originally Posted by Gooral

In order to do that she would have to go full power.

See above...

Originally Posted by Gooral

I doubt she had a concept of exponential functions and could think that way about her powers.

Sorry you have a doubt... but your doubt amounts to supposition at best.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Even if, AFAWK she has never went over 10-29 % (more like 10%) so it's a long way to go to 100%. She also didn't know AO powers, maybe she thought it would be too much of a bother to release 30% of her youki or more just to kill AB that didn't do a thing (at that time all of abyssals were staying low profile and didn't bother anyone). She could have thought that abyssals were much stronger than Rosemary because she was so much weaker than her.

Not if she's an eye like you claimed she was. They are logically trained to report the movements of the AO. Galatea could tell power levels from a vast distance... same with Tabitha, Cynthia, and Clare. Galatea and Renee both knew who Riful was right off the bat. I don't need to remind you both are confirmed eyes of the organization.

Originally Posted by Gooral

How come could she know that she was that much stronger than the rest of them. I mean, it doesn't make sense IMO that there would be a human 10-20 times stronger than me (I don't think there might be someone that can bench press 800-1600 kg/1700-3400lb) so maybe Teresa thought like me .

I just pretend I didn't take that as a vein comment... Teresa thinking like me ()

Also your logic is kinda off on this point... your stating that Teresa was far stronger then Rosemary (which you claim was at an AO level)... Yet your saying she had doubt because no one could be 10-20 times stronger than her. It's either she could be 10-20 times stronger than me or... maybe I'm not as strong as I think. That is if she doubted she could win...

Originally Posted by Gooral

What's more, in case you didn't notice she didn't really give a shit about anything. She didn't have a purpose, she only did what MiB told her to. And because they didn't tell her to go after AO (because they didn't know her power) why would she do that on her own accord? They didn't get in her way and she would have to rebel to kill them (because at the same time she would have other work to do). And why didn't she tell the Org how stron she was? I have various reasons in mind why not and none why would she.

Finally some logic I can agree with... though it still begs the question if she was such a cold women back then... Why was she fearful of the Orgs wraith? She clearly hated them too... So, Why not do a minor rebellion and kill of some AO's if she could? It's not like she couldn't claim they came to check her out and she just defended herself...

Originally Posted by Gooral

We don't know whether she had special abilities or not. ES1 wasn't to show Rosemary's special abilities but Teresa's awesomness. Besides, Teresa didn't let Rosemary to show off. At first she let her clobber her and later she crushed her suddenly. So at the start Rosemary didn't use her ace because she didn't need to and later on because it was too late.

An AO doesn't need to show off... you can tell there power just by looking. They can do far more then just basic moves.

Originally Posted by Gooral

That's why I wrote: which could be interpreted as: she had so much youki she couldn't completely erase her presence unlike Priscilla
I'm not saying it does interpret that way but that it may be interpreted that way.

I never said you didn't say could... just that I totally disagreed with your hypothesis and that it wasn't feasible. Sorry but you read too much into my comment... however you did base and entire argument on a "could" So I felt free to argue against it.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Also I never wrote that Teresa constantly suppresses her youki, how did you come up with that? I was saying that the fact she had so much problems with suprressing her youki (when Irene went into town - I thought it was obvious I was referring to that because it was the only time we know she tried to suppress her aura) could be interpreted as Teresa having so much youki she can't fully supress it. That's just my fanboyism and that's why I've used a modal verb (could be interpreted).

Duh... I was only commenting on the fact that could comment and trying to prove it was baseless. So let me rephrase for you since you failed to get the connection I was trying to make... You said "she had so much youki she couldn't completely erase her presence unlike Priscilla" I say... what do you base this on? An unstated attempt to mask her yoki over the years. Sorry but that's a baseless theory and should have been left out of your post.

Originally Posted by Gooral

Because we could. If some AB uses all his youki he reverts back to his human form. Easy as that.

No that's after they have spent all there yoki... not when there using it all. You have yet to prove that an AB can use every last ounce of there power when fresh on the battle. There's nothing to indicate they can't fight at 100% yoki for a prolonged period... This isn't DBZ (there's no super energy wave just peak proficiency)

Originally Posted by Gooral

Ryus, tell me, how did you come up with this latent powers after awakening? Because this is sth unsupported by facts.

Are you referring to Yagi writing that Priscilla gained access to all of her latent power upon awakening? or something else? (which I fail to get, since I mentioned nothing else like it... unless you misread me or I had a very bad typo...)