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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness
i would agree with you, if he did it FOR the japanese people
but as later shown, the japanese liberation cause wasn't really what he was after
it was a side-effect of it, and if the choice is between a fate of an entire nation of 100 million people, or his little sister...
my point was that i could agree with the fact that what he did with euphie was NEEDED if he did it for a greater cause
he DIDN'T
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Nothing but useless hyperbole. You overemphasize the negative to an illogically excessive degree. No, the Japanese liberation was not what he was after. He is not that narrow-minded, not like Ohgi and the rest who can't see two feet beyond Japanese borders to save their lives. He was after something bigger, and the Japanese liberation was a part of that. Nunnally is a corollary to that. She is the only family he has left, and while the job is being done for her, nevertheless he is committed to it.
As I point out earlier, if you can honestly tell me you'd let your family die when you had the power to save them but were busy with something of similar importance, then I will take this position more seriously. At the moment, you are faulting Lelouch for trying to protect the only family he has left (not wrongfully so, I must concede, but not rightfully so, either).
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness
my point about batman and zero is that zero is NOT lelouch's real personality, enabled through the mask
zero is a recruitment tool
lelouch isn't running for political office
he isn't trying to work as part of the system
lelouch is setting himself up as a symbol if justice, and thats the REASON why people follow him
they BELIEVE HIM to be something he isn't, but is PRETENDING to be
he SAYS one thing, and DOES another
and in fact, the things he does are SO completely different from what he says, that the moment his followers find out, they try to kill him
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They try to kill him because they're idiots who were looking for someone to blame and got it. They're also horribly ungrateful, given everything he's done for them. To rationalize their actions, which are wholly inappropriate in myriad ways, as proof that Lelouch "had it coming", so to speak, is patently absurd.
Again, what's you're point about Zero being a recruitment tool? You act like this is so unheard of. People need hope, a cuase they can believe in, and so on. Zero is the personification of that. He's a symbol that can be rallied behind. That his own goals are different is not surprising, unexpected, or even a bad thing, because he always intended to make good on his promises.
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Originally Posted by Laurcus
Does anyone else think that Lelouch opposing Charles and his Ragnarock connection because it forces his good intention on everyone else, when you can't really say that it's what everyone else wants is a bit... hypocritical? I mean, in the next few episodes he starts a war, kills many people then sacrafices himself to "push" people towards peace by getting them to follow the symbol of Zero.
Isn't that really the same idea? I know best so I will manipulate the world into doing what I think is right.
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The difference is choice. People in Charles' world would lose that. They'd become one person, a hive mind with no start and no need, lacking ambition to move forward or indeed any sort of individual emotion. Lelouch's way allows people the choice. His idea was that people will always choose the better future if they can, and work for that.