[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

Sorry for the delay, midterms tend to disrupt my ability to make well reasoned posts, so I didn't make them.

Np; just in time for the new episode to... not reveal anything new, regarding Uiharu or Saten's powers, as far as i can tell from summaries ...

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

I don't contest this. This is a valid interpretation. I just hate how there's not enough information from the anime to confirm a right or wrong for either of us.

Unfortunately, with only a few episodes left, i doubt the necessary information will become available anytime soon.

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

But all frames of references are equal under the equivalence principle. Anything that's only valid in a specific frame of reference and not in others is not considered invariant, and in physics, means that it is either not possible, or doesn't exist.

While all esper abilities make break laws like conservation of energy or momentum, all observers in all frames of reference can agree on which law is broken. If not, there's no consistent universe for there to be anyone in. This is the very basis of General Relativity.

I wasn't disputing that a power should function in the same way in all frames of reference; was was stating that a specific power user might not be able to apply it equally to all frames of reference. This might be due to a paucity of calculation power, experience, creativity or understanding; take your pick.

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

Your example here isn't valid. You're assuming the two powers are subsets of telekinesis. They could be affecting their respective materials through unrelated means. You're relating abilities because of their effect and not their cause. An example: a ball on a table moves towards someone. Maybe they telekinetically applied a force to move it. Or maybe they generated a specific gravity field to affect the ball only. While the effect is the same, cause of the effects aren't subsets of each other. On the other hand, my example is valid because I'm evaluating different effects due to the same natural law.

Conservation of Energy is a pretty broad natural law; it encompasses everything in the observable universe. Any effect with no observable cause is a candidate for being a violation of Conservation of Energy. I wasn't saying that all powers that 'move things around' must be sub-powers of 'general telekinesis;' i was pretty much saying the exact opposite. Until they define a 'power source' for power users, all powers violate conservation of energy; they are effects with no quantifiable cause. I'm saying that the specific mechanisms by which individual powers violate conservation of energy can be infinitely varied, and 'entropy manipulation' might be one of those mechanisms.

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

A logical progression of thought, but hasn't been verified so far. We've seen no espers in the process of gaining levels, only the knowledge that it is possible. The level upper is invalid. Even if teachers in the city have pushed this thought, it could still be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time teachers have taught something wrong until a better understanding was gained.

Misaka is often pointed out as an example of a student who progressed from level 1 to level 5, but they have also stated that genetics play a large role in ability. Still, it is understood that Misaka was not consciously capable at birth of all the feats she is capable of in present canon.

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

Again though, having control of entropy may give constant speed and constant temperature effects, but being able to generate a constant speed effect may not guarantee that person to have entropic control abilities. But yes, if Uiharu ups her level, she may start displaying a whole range of super powers.

I was never arguing for a guarantee; i was just arguing for the possibility. There are a bunch of different ways that the observed effects could be produced; the fun part is looking for the ones that fit best with what we can observe - and the ones that would allow Uiharu to fry Accelerator to a crisp sometime in the future...

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

Saten's power is obviously better. >.> Totally owns those other two.

Well, they made good on revealing Uiharu's power (to an extent), so hopefully we'll know what Saten's is as well within the next few episodes.

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

This reminds me, I have an interesting theory on how Touma's ability can be made consistent with the problem of "stopping railgun blasts but not accelerator accelerated objects." I should post that some other time.

I have given up arguing about Touma's power; i think it pretty much does whatever it needs to do in the story the author is writing, and probably doesn't have any deep, underlying rhyme or reason.

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

I hope I'm not being premature, but I'm going say that I can not rule out entropy control without either two things:

-Uiharu can make a thermally isolated system (ie. tayaki gives off no heat until touched by Haruue.)
-Uiharu levels up and provides more information on the effects of her abilities.

Though, like you, Alhazred, I still maintain that it's more likely she's drawing zero-point energy to keep the darn piece of tayaki the same temperature.

Heh, but if that were the case, then what form does the energy take? Microwaves? Direct increase in the kinetic energy of the molecules? What molecules? Just water, or anything? So many possibilities...

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

(To spite the author though, I will point out that if the tayaki's maintained at a freshly baked temperature for that long, it's probably dried out and untasty when they eat it.)

To which the author would probably reply, 'No it's not; it's still moist and delicious. Look at how much Haruue enjoys getting that bean jam all over her face.' and then not bother to explain how that's possible...