[JMvS]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

Not going to happen, not that I think you're seriously advocating it will. There are benefits to being part of a larger nation-state. Are there any polls showing a large majority of people in those regions wish to secede?

Well, on the issue I am semi-serious. Not that I am personally concerned about it, albeit sizable populations seems to be.
But I must admit that those recent polls which followed a mini regional political turmoil sent me rolling on the floor, and then thinking intensively.

Actually, as provocative as it might seem, I'm all for this proposition, as many peoples in and around my country are.

And the benefits of being part of a larger nation-state are appearing more and more less evident, as in or on Europe, the countries doing better are the smaller ones, while the larger ones seem plagued by their large size. To sum it up, as an old man interviewed in Savoy said: "what have we gained in becoming part of France? all I see are my taxes going to Paris, and that each of our villages has now a nice stone monument with the names of dozens of young men on it".

Plus, in the end it doesn't matter whether it's legal or not. All that matters is if the central government is strong enough to prevent break away regions from leaving, and friendly enough with the major powers to not get called on stopping them. When said central governments are the major powers, you can see how that won't work.

That's why each time I see self determination being discussed in those circles, I cannot suppress a grin on my face, given how much this notion has been stamped upon in Europe during the past 2 centuries, and more often than not by the very ones which were promoting it (and in the rest of the World as well).

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Wouldn't it be the best irony ever if the regionalist breakdown of nation-states would end up producing the necessary conditions for the EU to grow into a genuine superstate to serve functions that the old nation-states were needed for?

I could just imagine the look on the Euroskeptics' faces when all is said and done. Goodbye France, welcome to Europe!

Actually, that's a very serious contempt within establishment Euroskeptics, as Federalism and Regionalism is nothing but the disintegration of the old fashioned states.
Following my grandpa, I've been following European Construction and concerns across the whole continent with constant interest. And what I can say is that Federalism is a very old movement within Europe, and pretty much the goal the Fathers of Europe had envisioned.
But naturally is goes against many of the core values of several Countries, especially those which were built around (a more or less artificial) nationalism in the 19th century, and varying degrees of centralization. For before that time, even within large political units, regions had a vast degree of cultural freedom.

That said, I don't actually see something like this happening any time soon. While the Kosovo case involves Serious Business like brutal ethnic conflicts or even genocide, just how many Provençals out there are still feeling "oppressed" by France and how sane are they?

Edit: Tcheh. I'm slow.

Well, France is actually a prime example, for it is perhaps the state which was built upon the most extreme unitarian ideology. Unicity of the people, language and administration is entrenched within the constitution, and is the basis of it's formerly strong assimilationist policy toward migrants and colonies.

For during the past decades, there has been a strong resurgence of regional cultures and languages (in the past dismissed as generic "patois"), the thing is, for about a century, all were actively suppressed by the central administration (think the "speak white!" which was shouted at French speakers in the Americas). Problem is, the jacobinist Constitution of France cannot recognize any of those local language.

Plus, the countries borders saw considerable movements during this century: several regions, and there languages, experienced varying fortunes. Often ending arbitrarly divided within France.

Actually, all of this makes France all the more vulnerable to separatism, for it's very Constitution forbade it from recognizing historical regions and language as in a more federal context. And it is precisely this situation which fuels several regional movements, which are more or less radical in their secessionism: Corsica and Basque country come to mind, but also Savoy.

And all those movements know that ultimately they will achieve something, for even during the past half century territories have been going in and out of France.

Algeria is a notorious example of 3 departements which were abandoned (unlike the other colonies, Algeria was national territory).
On the other hand, several of the overseas territories gained departement status since. And even last year, the peoples of Mayotte, the only Comoro island which inhabitants voted to stay a French posession, voted for becoming a departement, abandoning their traditional cadi in favor of French Law. Of course, this infuriated the central Comoro Islands government, especially since two of the three islands have been showing regrets in leaving France.

Originally Posted by Vexx

I think it depends on how the EU evolves as a organizing nation-state. If the various countries evolve into "interesting postal addresses" - I can definitely see regional areas preferring to return to their primal designations or to designations that logically fit ecosystems or economic zones instead of lines drawn by a few hundred years of wars.

Well per se, the EU cannot evolve as a Nation state, for unless one were to start capitalizing on an extremely broad "European Nation", an European Nation State is nothing but an oxymoron.
Unless it stays in the current purgatoric bardo for an indefinite time, the continents future points toward regionalization: with a reconstitution of the organic regions which the traditional Federalists seek.

But maybe that this evolution will be so contrived and opposed that some will instead look toward the alternative which has survived for 700 years in the middle of the continent.