[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Part II, at just past 14:05. Haruhi was upset that she couldn't hand out fliers in a bunny girl outfit.

Well, maybe she had a right to be. This is a senior high school, after all. Being respectful of adults in a general sense doesn't mean you have to always agree with them, and can't let out some steam when adult regulations seem overly strict or difficult to you.

She wasn't extremely bubbly and happy and all that, no, but she wasn't in a particularly bad mood.

Well, most people tend to be snippy when they're in a "particularly bad mood", regardless of what their typical behavior is.

Kyon wasn't saying, "Oh my gosh, how can she possibly make Yuki a witch? What an injustice!" He just thought it was stupid.

My point is that he needlessly nitpicked the Mikuru movie to death, and was actively disagreeing with practically every little decision that Haruhi made. That's overkill, in my opinion. That's frankly not being a very good or supportive friend, in my opinion.

I stand by my position: Kyon can be a bit of a wet blanket at times.

Heck, Kyon himself basically admits that with how annoyed he was with Taniguchi trash-talking Haruhi's movie. Kyon was annoyed by what Taniguchi was saying there because it was like a good, hard look in the mirror for Kyon, and Kyon didn't entirely like what he saw there. The fact that Kyon had been acting like Taniguchi was in that one scene, is what made Kyon realize that he had been a bit too harsh on Haruhi, and that played a role in him choosing to be mostly supportive of the movie the rest of the way.

As for Mikuru getting dumped in the water, the anime makes it quite clear that it was cold and polluted, and Mikuru is TERRIFIED of getting thrown into it. Even the others clearly don't support doing that scene. And why does it matter if the scene was "played up"?

What I meant by "played up" in this case, is the choice of background music, and the lengthy shots of Mikuru's horrified face. It was a bit overdone, at a simple believability level.

Also, IIRC, Mikuru's own good friend Tsuruya didn't seem to think there was much wrong with what Haruhi wanted Mikuru to do here. I find it odd that Haruhi gets so much heat for the events of Sigh, while Tsuruya (who happily played right along with Haruhi every step of the way, enjoying it quite enthusiastically) gets a complete pass from people, it seems.

No. That CONCEPT is not a problem. But in simplifying it as you did, you completely ignored all the objections I have with the execution.

I'm ignoring no such thing. I'm simply presenting the other side of the issue. I get why you don't like how Haruhi handled the making of the Mikuru movie. I myself don't condone everything that Haruhi did there. I'm just saying that it's not a black-and-white issue overall. There's some good motivations fueling Haruhi here.

"Let's say there is a very unfortunate person somewhere. But he wakes up one day to a world that has completely changed. Let's say the world has turned into an indescribable utopia, and he encounters absolutely no misfortune anymore. In the space of one night, someone whisked him away from hell and brought him to heaven.

However, this person did not wish for that to happen. He was taken by someone he doesn't know, whose identity remains a mystery. He never figures out who did it, and no one else ever finds out either. Now in this case, should this person be happy?"

You're missing the point of this quote. This quote basically shows how unreliable a narrator Kyon is. He's not unhappy because he doesn't know who or what brought about this change. He's unhappy simply because he doesn't like the change period, but he can't admit to himself (yet) that he doesn't like the change.

The point of this quote is that whether or not good came out of events, it doesn't matter one bit as long as it's happening to the person in question against their will.

So, should a parent never scold a child then? A parental scolding is obviously done "against the will" of the child in question (i.e. the child probably doesn't want to be scolded). But that parental scolding could help to raise the child into being a better person.

Likewise, what Haruhi put Mikuru through made Mikuru a better person, imo.

Personal growth isn't all about rainbows and butterflies. Sometimes there's unpleasantness involved. As the old saying goes "No pain, no gain". Getting a person to come out of their shell can be an unpleasant process for the person being moved out of their shell. But, in the long-term, it can be for the better.

I think it's quite clear from Haruhi's actions (as I HAD said; somehow you manage to keep missing the important parts of my post)

I'm not missing anything. I'm just raising the other side of the issue.

... that she considers Mikuru to be her toy. She has a grand idea of how the movie's going to be, and, regardless of Mikuru's objections (which are quite blatant, especially for her), she's decided it's going to be that way. When you impose your will on others, oblivious to their own will, you're treating them as a toy.

Mikuru can leave the SOS Brigade whenever she wants. She chooses to be a member of the SOS Brigade of her own volition, and by the point of Sigh in the broader narrative, she ought to know what that entails for her.

Haruhi imposes her will on Mikuru, in part, because Mikuru lets her.