[Kylon99]

Originally Posted by Renall

Then why does it even matter to have that subplot? Just drop the bomb on us: Battler is Tohya. Let us puzzle it out ourselves. We didn't need a lame explanation, if what you say is true.

And just to be clear, the difference here is that there are some things that need to be told and some things that might just be better without. "What was Battler doing all those years?" is not necessarily something we have to know, and in fact, anything that we think up in our heads is probably better than what we wound up actually being told. My problem is really that he told us things he should have shown us, made certain things too ambiguous that needed to be clear, and made things that could have been left ambiguous clear to no particular benefit for the story.

I would say the fact that we didn't figure it out was our own doing. We kept suspecting Tooya of making things up and ending up discarding possibly the entire EP3-6... or at least EP5 and 6, and then we left EP3 and 4 in doubt because we couldn't identify a proper author. But I think, while we were uncertain, we did conclude that it must have been someone with intimate family knowledge that survived 'till at least 1998. Only, I remember we just left it at the question, "How did Hachijou (Ikuko) know about Natsuhi and the baby dropping?"

Our leaving it at the question was probably the mistake. (I notice that when we're uncertain, we leave it at a question and stop thinking... we don't follow things to their logical conclusion. (And when I say we, I don't mean us fine people on the board , I mean, us in general, as humans.))

Basically, it couldn't have been Eva nor Ange. Eva because she seemed to be the head of a company and not a writer, nor Ange because she was very young. Mystery Writer and Battler were the only two shown to have literary inclinations, specifically mystery inclinations.

Anyways, it very well could be there were some things that failed to satisfy you. I don't doubt that. But it really does seem that I read a different story (or picked up different lessons from the story) than you. I think you should understand that's why I can't agree with you.

Originally Posted by Renall

I expect people to agree with me because they agree that he has shown a lack of competency. "There might be an answer, but I'll get back to you later" is a hack's trick. It's "I better hurry up and think of something!" It's very suspect. He shouldn't allow people to have that suspicion at all, and there's a very easy way to do that.And where exactly do you expect those to come from if not the ending? I guess that's the problem when things get episodic.

I guess I'm having trouble seeing that because of the way he embedded answers into EP1-4 from EP5-8 (or really, from his notes and outline). Everything seems too well constructed for him to change plots midway through. And in fact, there were a few things that people figured out that he didn't change, it seems. Like Kinzo being dead (from the Japanese side, mostly) or the Taiwan theory.

But, that's what I mean, it's not the end for me. I remember Higurashi Rei still dealt very seriously with the conclusion of the story. That is the story was 'finished' and the puzzle was undone... (rather than a mystery)... but there was still a little left with Rika and Hanyuu's characterization.

Umineko has ended its character development and ended its story. I really don't see anywhere for him to put in more, except for.... no, it's like all the characters are totally accounted for. That's all I really see EP8 doing. I think even I was under the mistaken impression that he would provide all the answers here. But now that I recall, he kept saying that he would reveal little by little in his interviews, to allow people to figure out things. So, I'm thinking that EP8, or the whole 'Chiru' series is this little-by-little reveal. Because he's done this, I think he's thinking that if he reveals all the answers, it means the total end to the fun in Umineko. So, I still expect him to announce when he'll do that...

Honestly, I'm kinda glad we don't have everything yet; there's some things I'm still thinking about. See below.

Originally Posted by musouka

Don't get me wrong. There were things I definitely disliked about EP8. It felt rushed and relied too much on Ange making some really moronic choices in the middle. Beato and Battler's ending was perfect, but felt out of place with the focus of the ep, ect, ect. But I'm not upset because Ryukishi decided to forgo the traditional "line up the suspects and exposition dump at them for fifteen pages."

Yah, I thought Ange was a bit too convenient, trying to deny anything other than her Quest for the Truth! Also, I thought that Beatrice and Battler's romance was supposed to be resolved in EP6, so it was strange for the ending of EP8 to be about them, rather than Ange, entirely.


But, maybe it was necessary, unfortunately. My theory is this, that Battler Prime very well knew the things that were going on on the island, to nearly the same level as Yasu, enough to allow Tooya to be able to write even more in detail.

I've been thinking that Yasu must have been aware of that there was someone out to really murder. And that she was trapped, because of this. This is because her stories take this into account! If she writes about it, it means she must know it. And this is separate from Yasu's idea that the siblings were capable of spontaneous murder.

Ok, so Tooya is able to fish out Battler's memories and write EP3-6. This is why I said he's suspicious; not that he's a culprit but that he must have known something was wrong. This is because despite losing his memories of the incident, he is still able to write to enough detail after only two EP regarding the staging of the murders. The writing is the proof of knowledge.

And I think that he was taking action in going back, rather than just blithely going along with Rudolf. Meta and Piece Battler may have been portrayed as idiots, but they were sometimes portrayed as smart. I think Battler Prime knew more than Yasu gave him credit for.

So it must be something vitally important that the both of them knew and were taking action on... although maybe not co-ordinated action.


By the way, I've never understood why Yasu said she was trapped. And Meta-Battler in EP5, after he figured it out, said that he realized that she was the one who was long suffering; not him. It was said that she couldn't leave the island, right? I mean, it couldn't really be her disfigurement (if there was one), or her inheriting the head-ship. It sounds like she was the boss afterwards. What reasons are there for people to have to remain on an island? Or with the family who's not even there most of the year?