[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Exactly where did he say this? In ep2, which was the only place I could think of, all I get is Madoka saying "others can't see him"

Hmm, thought I remembered it a bit differently. The only other thing I can find is that one can see one's magical talent before becoming an MG, and Kyube says that Madoka's is the biggest he's ever seen. Given that he can magical talent by practically salivating over Madoka's,

So I'll cheerfully admit that my previous position was a bit incorrect(ooh, he's changing his opinion in the face of true fact? I thought he wouldn't!). But as you see in ep 3, we know exactly why Kyube wants Madoka: she has very large... magical talents.

Don't stuff words in my month, that's unbecoming of you. What I did was draw a line between facts and opinions. You're the one taking everything off the facts side.

I'll cheerfully apologize if I misunderstood what you were saying; after all, communication can be difficult and thus we can allow space for misunderstandings, ne?

But not everything I have been saying is fact; as I stated above, some things were speculation.

These are the facts. Though if I were to be strict about it, I remove "only" from the sentence.

I wouldn't, because that is the only way we currently know. If such a time comes as we learn another way to deal with witches, then it can be removed. But as of now, it's a current fact.

That's a conclusion. It's probably the correct one. But as you know, it's sometimes possible to draw a completely opposite conclusion based on the same facts. So, if Conclusion A is considered a fact bacause the facts lead to it, yet Conclusion B states "A is false" based on the same facts, how am I supposed to pick which is really a fact?

You're clouding the issue and trying to distract from it. As I've said before, those are the facts as we currently know them.

So, how would you say Kyube isn't a net benefit to humanity? And remember, no speculation about what we may learn in the future. Using the facts that we agreed to, explain how Kyube presence is detrimental *overall* to humanity.

This means no "There must be another method!" because that's something we don't know currently. Maybe there is, and maybe there isn't. But as of right now, Kyube's magical girls are killing witches, and thus there are less witches to prey upon humans. Ergo, net benefit. Currently.

Some conclusions you can reach with logic. If a character steps off a cliff, they don't need to show you that person falling to know exactly what happened. They didn't really show what happened to Mami, but we can conclude from the facts that she had her head chewed on. There are some conclusions that can't be drawn, this is true; but in this case, there is one.

Originally Posted by applejuice

That, I think, is the center of all dispute we are having... You are treating like there are only one-way-road to the logical analysis, when Urobuchi's troll space isn't closed spaced like we do in thermodynamics ideal gas theory.

Logic is generally one way, and by it's very nature, is emotionless. Logic would say the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, so the few should die for the many. Emotion would say that no one should die. You are free to offer up your own logical analysis to scrutiny if you like.

If you haven't watched much of the original Star Trek, then you missed out on some great McCoy/Spock interactions. But I notice a lot of the "logic" here would cast Spock, and most Vulcans, as evil. Heh, hell, Bones certainly felt that way a lot of the time.