Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerpepitone
Where does it say that in Knox's rules? Van Dine's rules state "2. No willful tricks or deceptions may be placed on the reader other than those played legitimately by the criminal on the detective himself.", which is thrown out the window by showing the "Natsuhi meets Kinzo" scene, let along scenes like when the servants are preparing the Oct. 4 dinner in Legend.
A detective lying to deceive the villain is a fairly common device in mystery fiction.
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It was drawn out pretty clearly in EP5, that the Detective is not allowed to falsify their perspective - this was the entire point of the discrepancy of Battler being allowed to a.) "witness" Kinzo and b.) be an accomplice. This does NOT mean the Detective can never tell a lie - Battler lies to Maria about the scorpion charm in Legend, and Erika accuses Natsuhi of whoring it up with Kinzo, even though Erika, even on the gameboard, seems to be pretty damn aware that he's dead already.
The territory is probably murky, but it probably plays out like this:
Battler is the detective. He sees a sheet in the breeze. He can lie and say "I saw Kinzo", but the reader / Meta-characters know with certainty that he only saw a sheet, and chose to lie
OR Battler is not the detective. He claims to see Kinzo. Perhaps he is lying, perhaps he is not.
Also, Umineko violated Van Dine ALL OVER THE PLACE. So much so that it's pretty much the consensus that Will lost his EP7 fight with Bern because he didn't want to shatter Beatrice's Game with all the
glaring inefficiencies it has when held up to his rule set.