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Old 2011-07-11, 03:48   Link #23155
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Golden Land
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Where does it say that in Knox's rules? Van Dine's rules state "2. No willful tricks or deceptions may be placed on the reader other than those played legitimately by the criminal on the detective himself.", which is thrown out the window by showing the "Natsuhi meets Kinzo" scene, let along scenes like when the servants are preparing the Oct. 4 dinner in Legend.

A detective lying to deceive the villain is a fairly common device in mystery fiction.
It's called inductive reasoning. And, no, you're misunderstanding the rule completely. Showing Meta-Erika fantasy scenes doesn't count because it's not tricking what Piece-Erika, the actual Detective, actually perceives. Nor does a Detective lying to the Villain count as falsifying perspective. It is only when the Detective lies to US, THE READERS is the rule violated.

Holy shit, people really need to understand these goddamn rules, it's not difficult.

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Also, Umineko violated Van Dine ALL OVER THE PLACE. So much so that it's pretty much the consensus that Will lost his EP7 fight with Bern because he didn't want to shatter Beatrice's Game with all the glaring inefficiencies it has when held up to his rule set.
NO, IT DIDN'T. THIS IS AN ERROR CREATED BY PEOPLE THINKING THE RULES ARE PROSCRIPTIVE AND LITERAL, INSTEAD OF DESCRIPTIVE AND ACTING ON ETHIC OF NARRATIVE.

For instance, the rule forbidding "A servant being the culprit" doesn't mean that a person that is a servant can never be the murderer. What the rule actually fucking means is that the culprit can't be an expendable, effectively emotionless character that can be tossed under the guillotine without any real drama (would anyone really give a shit if the culprit turned out to be Genji or Gohda or something?)

Meanwhile, someone like Shannon would not fall under this rule. Yes, they're a servant. But they're also a major love interest, a significant character full of drama, emotion, and perspective value, and are at the crux of everything even if you don't posit that they're a murderer or an accomplice. Shannon being a murderer is valid in Dine Rules without ever having to go to "She was only pretending to be a servant as the Head."
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When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531
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