Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett
Why? Because her inhibitions have been artificially removed without her consent.
There is no "you subconsciously wanted this underneath those inhibitions, so you actually deserved it" defense. Inhibitions are part of us, and are not somehow invalid or subject to being dismissed as unimportant by other people. Having our inhibitions removed does not "reveal your true self" or any of that crap. Drugging someone to remove their inhibitions is an act of violation of the victim's self determination, and driven by a desire to dominate and control another person.
It's not any surprise it tends to be combined with rape.
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For me, this is the key, central point in all of this discussion.
Does Ringo have moral inhibitions that would cause her to not agree to have sex with Yuri if not for the effects of the drug that was given to her?
Well, Yuri herself must suspect that an attempt at actual seduction on a non-drugged Ringo wouldn't work, or she wouldn't bother with the drug (not without Ringo agreeing to take the drug, anyway). That implies that Yuri thinks that Ringo does have such moral inhibitions.
Note: An actual seduction would be Yuri sweet-talking Ringo, probably asking things like "Have you ever wondered what it would be like to have sex with another woman?" and making suggestions like "Let yourself go, and spend a wild night with me. It'll make you feel much better, and help you forget about that foolish boy that turns down gorgeous girls with charming personalities".
Now, truthfully, I'm not so sure that this wouldn't have worked, and if it did, of course it wouldn't be rape
then.
But by using the methods that she has, Yuri is taking a real risk (or rather, would have been, if she had seen it through all the way). Without consent clearly given in a sober state of mind,
and with Ringo's moral inhibitions lowered without consent given here either (admittedly, this is guesswork on what I think the effects of the drug are - i.e. similar to alcohol), whether or not a rape occurred is basically up to "morning after" Ringo.
At a practical level, I think risingstar3110 is probably right when he writes "Some will trust that as long as the partner approve the idea in the end, then the forceful advance at the beginning can be justified. Because to them after all a rape is not a rape if no one acknowledge it to be one (another philosophical debate)."
If "morning after" Ringo
doesn't feel violated against her will, then well, she doesn't feel violated against her will. But if she
does feel violated, then she has been, because she wasn't given an opportunity to object to sex while in a non-drugged state of mind with her moral inhibitions being able to play a role (even if not the decisive one) in the decision that she makes.
Ringo has a right to her moral beliefs, and she has a right to not have them taken away from her (by drugs) without her consent. Anything Ringo is lead into doing while her moral inhibitions have been taken away from her by force can't be considered consensual unless "morning after" sober Ringo says "Well, I don't know if I'd have agreed to that if not for the strange state of mind I was in, but I'm kind of glad I had that experience with Yuri..." or something to that effect.
So, as should be clear now, this discussion is almost entirely hypothetical and probably unprovable, since Yuri didn't see it through, so Ringo won't need to determine for herself if she felt violated or not.
However, the whole situation certainly
looks very bad, for a variety of reasons (adult doing this to a teenager, teenager already in a vulnerable state of mind due to a recent romantic rejection of sorts, bondage playing a role in it all without clear-headed consent to that in particular, etc...). So I don't think someone should be faulted for viewing it as attempted rape.
Anyway, that's likely my last word on this particular topic.