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Originally Posted by itachi-san314
pain was not exhausted
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You think fighting an entire village and shortening your own lifespan does not exhaust you in the slightest?
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people get intel about their enemies all the time. are you assuming pain knew nothing about konoha?
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Did Pain know about sage mode? No. Did Naruto know everything about Pain? Yes. Plus, you're ignoring the healing part.
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clones are used in every battle just about. it's not a cheat, its a technique of fighting
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That was no normal situation. Naruto prepared those clones out of battle in the land of the toads, where Pain could not stop them from gathering natural chakra. What I'm saying is, that in a normal fight, you don't have that possibility.
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hinata did nothing. you cant assume that the kyuubi wouldn't have taken over without her interference. naruto was just listening to what pain had to say. he wasnt defeated and he wasnt incapable of going into KM without her
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He was unable to go Kyuubi Mode without Hinata, because Kyuubi mode is not something he could willingly do. He wasn't able to control his powers at that point, and it just overtook Naruto's body, because Pain enraged Naruto by seemingly killing Hinata.
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this is naruto... its all him. just having the kyuubi inside him and living through its chakra is difficult and hardly anyone else could do it but naruto.
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Wrong. Naruto had no influence on Kyuubi overtaking whatsoever. He was not even conscious anymore and it was definately not his decision. Because, like I said, he couldn't even control kyuubi mode.
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read my previous post, because you obviously didn't get what I said about minato or hinata. they did nothing vs pain in battle terms
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That doesn't matter, they still supported him. It's easy. Without Hinata, there would've been no Kyuubi. Result? Naruto defeated. Without Minato there would've been no Naruto. Result? Kyuubi destroys Pain and Konoha.
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if you want to go down the road of saying naruto didnt beat pain because of the kyuubi then you have to discount all of bee's fights since he uses the 8 tails. and anyone who uses summonings as well (*ahem* NAGATO DOES!), which I hope you will see as faulty logic eventually. they are all techniques and modes that 1 person is using in a fight
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That's exactly what you don't seem to understand. Bee is able to control the eighttails' power, just like Pain and everyone else is able to willingly cast Summonings to their support and fight alongside them. Naruto however, was not able to control the kyuubi's power and he did not use the ninetails' power in a fight, because he had no control over it in the slightest. There is a difference between Naruto using the Kyuubi's power and the Kyuubi going on a rampage himself. The fox just happened to take over without Naruto's will. And without Minato's seal, Naruto would be as good as dead because of it.