Now that we’ve reached an agreement on the contents of what you summed up in “2)”, we can return to the issues in your “1)”. It may be laziness – or even drought of thought - but I will take the liberty to quote extensively from one of my earlier posts.
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Originally Posted by Estavali
Despite the difference in atmosphere, Ga-Rei Zero is written with the manga as a basis and as such it is not impossible to follow on from there.
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Originally Posted by Estavali
"If Ga-Rei can inspire Ga-rei Zero despite their differences, why can't animators work with the original to bring the gold out from the mud?"
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Because of ...
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Originally Posted by careph
... the mediocre conception and poor execution of the manga. GRZ could take a lot of liberties since the events preceding the manga were only hinted at. If the animation team had to use the manga as a foundation, they would be much more limited in their range of action. A weak foundation will always destabilize a building, no matter how skilled the architects are in designing it.
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I don't think it would suffice just to take out the hilarity in the manga. Also, there were quite a few people who liked precisely what you dislike so much, DragoZERO for instance.
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Originally Posted by Estavali
A Ga-Rei anime, following Zero's lead, would be one where the manga story is updated with the background provided by Zero, where the excessive lulz elements (which imho is the major factor contributing to the manga's lower status compared to Zero) are weeded out to streamline and intensify the tension, etc. In short, Ga-Rei's story (modified), Zero's style.
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Originally Posted by careph
I see a big[...] problem with the anime's main selling point - the troubled relationship between Kagura and Yomi leading to tragedy - being repeated ad nauseam in the manga. I don't think even an experienced animation team could maintain GRZ's tension over a longer period of time without desensitizing or boring the audience.
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Besides, GRZ's "style" is more than the mood created by the visual and musical composition. While the music and animation style, the colours, the setting, the voice acting, etc. contributed to the overall dark atmosphere of the anime, it is the logic inherent in the medium – the laws of nature if you will – that made GRZ such a moving series. “Style” in a broader sense encompasses the mechanics and rules of the universe. And as I remarked earlier…
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Originally Posted by careph
In order to maintain the unique tone of the anime, it would be impossible to bring Yomi back to life. The world of GRZ is one of merciless cruelty and realism, and does not mix well with Shounen traditions. People die left and right, and they do not return.
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Other than as mindless zombies that are quickly dispatched, contributing to the cynical undertone that is one of GRZ's hallmarks.
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Originally Posted by Estavali
My apologies if I have misread you. It's just that I can't understand why you continued to proclaim the impossibility of a Ga-Rei anime even with the idea of adapting the manga to work with Zero's story and atmosphere. "Is this really such an out-of-the-world idea?"
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I think it is.
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Originally Posted by careph
… it seems that Yomi was pretty popular in the anime. I think her tragic death in GRZ helped to popularize her character even further. If you, however, bring her back to life in an anime like the manga did, you seriously weaken the impact of her death, and thus her popularity.
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In addition, you also threaten the integrity of GRZ’s world. A grimdark scenario that is not coherent and banishes demons to bottomless hells only to bring them back on demand is not very convincing and takes the bite out of the tragedy. If an anime adaptation seeks to maintain Zero’s style, it must forego reintroducing Yomi. However …
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Originally Posted by careph
If you do not bring her back, you lose one of the anime's most attractive elements and alienate her fans.
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Add to that Kagura’s poor reception in the anime, and her relatively weak position as a protagonist, and you end up with little that could serve as a foundation for a competent production team to weave its magic out of.
Whichever way I look at it, whichever option I explore, I always arrive at a dilemma.
When you say …
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Originally Posted by Estavali
… however Ga-Rei is essentially told through Kagura and Kensuke, whose actions influences each other…
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… or even stronger (and boldfaced and underlined too!) …
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Originally Posted by Estavali
Ga-Rei is Kagura and Kensuke's story
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… I think I can identify yet another issue that may be difficult to resolve. Following a debate several years back, it had been proposed that instead of seeing either Yomi or Kagura as the protagonist of the anime, it would be wiser to say that their relationship is the crux of the series. At first the idea seems outlandish, since many people feel inclined to assume that a relationship is nothing but the sum of its constituents, i.e. the people involved. Mathematically: 1 (Kagura) + 1 (Yomi) = 2 (relationship).
If, however, you think of a relationship as something that goes beyond the contributions of either party, as an entity in and of itself, you will find that you can resolve a central problem: The fact that neither Kagura nor Yomi on their own could adequately perform the role of protagonist. Just like Ikebukuro is not just a location in Durarara!!, but an actual character, I think you can legitimately claim that the relationship between Kagura and Yomi is the real protagonist of GRZ.
I'm sure you can already see where I’m going with this, because the same principle applies to Ga-Rei: it is not either Kagura or Kensuke, but their interaction, their relationship that serves as the pivotal point of the manga.
Now if the relationship between Kagura and Yomi is what made the anime work, and the connection between Kagura and Kensuke fuelled the manga, then we are trapped in yet another dilemma. We are forced to decide between focusing on an integral part of GRZ that would likely overshadow the manga, or tone down GRZ’s influence to focus on how the manga tells its story.
Taking this into consideration, it may have been rash to dismiss your idea of moving Yomi’s return to the final arc. Your approach would allow the adaptation to shift the focus between the two relationships quite elegantly, first on Kagura and Kensuke, later on Kagura and Yomi.
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Originally Posted by Estavali
What I wish not to see is Yomi hogging the limelight, overshadowing both Kensuke (fine...) and Kagura (bad idea). Like what we probably both agree on, Ga-Rei is Kagura's story and I'm uneasy with the thought of having Yomi snatch that role from her.
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I think you can rest assured here: that won’t happen in any case.
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Originally Posted by Estavali
I also misunderstood your position about Yomi's role. To me, you seemed to say that only Yomi is necessary to support Kagura throughout the story; the others don't matter. And that despite the introduction of Kensuke as the new main character, the focus should still be on Yomi and Kagura, defeating the purpose of putting him there in the first place.
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Thank you for your honesty and elaboration. It’s interesting how easily miscommunication can happen, and fault can usually be found on both sides.
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Originally Posted by Estavali
Agreed. Though I still do wonder if her "emotional buffer" is largely built on the ideal Yomi rather than the real person with both her beautiful and ugly sides now apparent to Kagura.
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If you can find the time, re-watch episodes eleven and twelve of GRZ, keeping in mind what I said about Kagura’s emotional stance. The first encounter between Kagura and Yomi in the woods will be especially relevant, as will Kagura’s reaction to Noriyuki’s claim that “this is not the Yomi we knew”.
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Originally Posted by Estavali
What I mean to say is that I strongly suspect that Zero and Yomi's popularity had led (maybe even forced) Segawa to reintroduce Yomi in the final arcs and with a central role to the second half of the story. Isn't it curious that he killed Yomi off only to ressurect her and conveniently bind her to a person that looks absolutely like her?
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There’s much reason in that argument, and I think it is not improbable things went that way. However, I have also read somebody argue quite convincingly that Segawa had planned Yomi’s (second) return from the beginning, long before the anime was produced. He/she quoted several passages from the manga that all point in that direction. Interesting as such interpretations may be, in the end they’re speculation.
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Originally Posted by Estavali
I do wish you have included the entire paragraph, or at least the sentence in full here
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And I wish that you didn’t rip apart two sections connected by dots in my post so that they lose their original meaning. Consensus would be much easier to achieve that way
