[VezSketch]

Originally Posted by Keroko

The field-type defensive spell allow for this, and is far more likely given Nanoha's skill with defensive magic.

Field magic would not allow someone to catch the fist of someone who's physically superior to them. It simply surrounds the user with protection, it doesn't augment the strength of the user. Nanoha was not pushed back by Subaru's strength. When do we see it working like that?

Flawed argument, given that magical slash attacks and magical endurance are far from the same thing. Subaru's physical strength has more caveats than this. Cyborg + magic X rank = different answer then you would get if you would do human + magic X rank.

Subaru was having trouble with Veyron, who has not demonstrated himself to be as strong as Cypha or DeVille.

As a cyborg, Subaru has a raw physical strength that rivals Nove, who has an equivalent of a AAA rank in physical strength. Without magic. Now add Subaru's AA magic rank on to that, and Subaru will push at least into the S-rank when it comes to physical strength.

I remember Nove beating Subaru with ease in StrikerS? And Subaru and Nove were fighting equally in Vivid, from what I recall. That's actually pushing it comparing them to S Rank without any feats and requires flimsy powerscaling. How strong Subaru is now is kind of a mystery and the way Force is dealing with things, we probably won't find out. Not to mention Base Fate >= Tre and Sette (S+ Ranks without magic ... You're positive magic is not accounted for in the ranks the Numbers were given?) while even under an AMF.

He's got a partial point that devices can be designed for offense, speed, support or defense. Beyond that... well, yeah. Giving Raising Heart to a random TSAB smuck is not going to do much.

Agreed with everything.

I would not go this far. The difference between using energy for magic attacks and using energy for physical enhancement is as far apart is running is from punching. Being good at one does not automatically make you good at the other. Case in point: Hayate. Shit-tons of mana, chain-nuke spells that make Nanoha shuffle her feet, sucks worse than Caro in melee. Reason? No aptitude for it.

Using Hayate as an example is probably the most terrible way to prove this.

Just because Curren is stronger than Vita in ranged piercing attacks does not mean she can replicate her hammer lift. That's physical strength and endurance.

Base Zest was capable of matching a Unison Vita and then kind of curbstomped her with his Full Drive, showing he was physically superior to her. Signum had a better showing against Zest. If someone is shown to be physically superior to Vita in striking (she has to use the same physical strength to lift and strike - endurance has little to do with it in the case), they have physically superiority to her in lifting and striking. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

It is agreed Subaru doesn't have anything to suggest she's as strong as the captains, am I right?