[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

@ Eidolon sniper: A LOT of people earn reputations from changing things from when they were rebels. How about this name: Menachem Begin...

Prime minister of Israel, former rebel against the instated British government there, and to pay hommage to WD's arguments, former selective terrorist, responsible for the bombing on the king david hotel.

Still not convinced? George Washington.

Well, some gain popularity from doing that sort of thing, and some gain notoriety. And just not because you're a rebel instantly makes you a cult hero or something. The people also has to take into account the things that you've actually done for them, whether directly or indirectly. And what did Lacus actually do? Nothing, zilch, NADA. Unless you count allowing and bringing chaos into the battlefield that is...

People liked Lacus Clyne because of her father's reputation. She rode that and built upon that.

The question here is that did Lacus ever made it all on her own? So you're saying that without the Clyne name she'd be totally useless, just as Kira would be without Freedom or Strike Freedom? So without the Clyne name, she'll never get to be the leader of the Three Ships Alliance, be the dispenser of the holy Lacus dust, and wouldn't snatch Kira from the arms of his one true love?

Then that'd make her really useless then. Thanks for proving my point.

Psychotic friends are not interesting. They are scary and I would rather distance myself from them. And no, just because I said there are some people that I would relate to Kira doesn't mean they stare at the sea for two years, but moreso, have that gentle demeanor about them that makes you want to be friends with them.

They could be interesting, in some way. These people are like that maybe because they have problems, loads of problems, that they couldn't really relate to anyone else because mayber they're scared, traumatized, or what have you. I am not saying that you diss really good friends will all the right traits that make them really good friends, but if you actually have a friend like that, you would want to do all for them so that they could start believing in humanity again, right? And when they start to really trust you, it's a feeling that you can't really compare with anything else at the moment.

And if you're someone who'd rather not try talking to a person with such problems and attitudes when underneath all that arrogant, WTF behavior is an actual person crying out for help and isn't asking for more hell than what he's actually experiencing right now...then I can't do anything about it.

Athrun talked to Shinn quite a few times. Episode 16 he tried. Nothing happened really...then after Athrun was shot down, what position did he have to talk to Shinn from? When in Justice, Athrun DID a lot of talking with Shinn. Shinn didn't believe ANY of it until Athrun stopped him from killing the one last living person he cared about. And in the end, guess what? Athrun was right, because if Athrun was wrong, and Luna would have died...well...that'd really suck, wouldn't it?

That's the problem, that episode was the only instance that he actually tried to talk some sense into Shinn, and after that, there was none. I had high hopes for Athrun as mentor to Shinn, but for some strange reason, Fukuda suddenly decided to screw it.

Shinn actually wanted to hear something from Athrun because he actually respected Athrun. Shinn was the one who brought Athrun back to his old self again (well, the start of it anyway) when he talked to Athrun after the Savioring incident. And if you say a couple of sentences is long enough for Shinn to actually understand what Athrun was trying to say in the last 49 episodes...yeah right. Remember the long silence, one liners, and Dully and Rey's poisoning. There's not much a couple of sentences could actually do against this. Which is why Kira's mind raping of Rey is also .

Lacus and Kira trying to get a hold on the entire universe? Hence why Lacus went back to the orphanage and tried to live a completely no-profile lifestyle. Yeah..................right. That's why Kira was sitting on a rocking chair instead of flying around in the Freedom.

More like running away from responsibilities, more like it. The war she took part in is a war in which she must also help to bring an end to, and it didn't end after the Jachin Due war. Do you really honestly think that war is over just because the guns already stopped firing? The part after the war is where real war begins. You have to deal with a lot of people, people who suffered because of this war, people who are dicontent why the war ended up that way, people who lost everything in this war, countries affected by this war...geez, did you honestly also think that a treaty is the only solution in order to curb all these?

There's nothing that a mere piece of paper or a talk with all the leaders of the universe could do about what has happened. People are scarred from this war, and the people who caused this war, or took part in this war, should try their best, work for what they had actually tried to accomplish in the last war, and not take some time off in a deserted island saying that she only wanted a no-profile lifestyle, or deserve a break to be with a zombiefied person, or because she just wants to live a completely normal life. The reason why GSD happened is because Lacus ALLOWED it to happen. And that, my friend, is such a big to your belief that Lacus is an actual politician who, above all things personal and whatever, should KNOW that she is needed because the war wasn't really resolved at all.

And in she goes back to her full Goddesshood glory like she never really was the cause of all the shit that has happened in GSD, then fights off an "evil" madman, then declares herself Empress and Goddess of the entire universe. She didn't want to take the power? She didn't want to take power with 2 demigods at her side and a powerful country to which she allied herself with at her beck and call?

Lacus never wanted any power?



That's about the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my entire life.

How can they go against Lacus if she takes no power to begin with? Lacus has always been a more passive type, just providing the tools to the people that will use the tools. She built Kira and Athrun the gundams and let them use the gundams to their hearts' content. Tell me one instance that Lacus gave a direct order to ANYONE she was close with. In fact, when has Lacus EVER said "I am right."? When Patrick Zala wanted to annihilate all naturals? Stir the people up, make them think, okay. Saying "this is the way I do things, and if you don't do it my way, I will bury you?" When has she said that?

Actions speak louder than words, my friend. She didn't need to order them around, she already had them wrapped around her little finger. She provides these people with unnecessary tools that give them unnecessary power, and as which Cagalli stated so early on in the series about gaining too much power creates conflict, and so she violates her ideal that she wants to bring peace and protect freedom, because she lent them tools in which only created more tension and conflict in the battlefield, and her supposed claim of fighting for peace is just total bull.

Lacus never actually has to say that she is right, because she is already right, and if Fukuda says Lacus is right, then she is right, ditto with all her rabid fanatical supporters, and to the rest of the dumb populace of the CE universe. And besides, her demigods are so intoxicated with her Lacus dust that is why they strike down whoever is in her way of achieving total universal domination. Think about it.

Oh, and about Durandall...Kira just said "let's not jump headfirst into his alliance, remember that they sent coordinators to kill Lacus" though later, even Kira was doubting his own thoughts, thinking "what if Durandall really is a swell guy and it was just some assholes that wanted to kill Lacus?"

NO. He actually told Athrun when they met on that beach that "after those Coordinators were sent to kill Lacus, I don't trust that Dullindal guy anymore". He only questioned about trying to do the right thing when he and Murrue had a talk in the hallways of the Archangel. And it was nothing about saying Dullindal was an actual nice guy. He was more concerned about them bringing chaos into the battlefield, nothing more and nothing less. And Lacus' belief of Dullindal's evil after making that wild claim AFTER READING A LITTLE NOTEBOOK was the last nail that drove straight home and strengthened Kira's resolve of Dullindal as a genuinely evil guy. That, and reading Meer's diary (which, is also pretty , considering Meer only talked about Dullindal in a really nice way, and she wasn't saying anything bad about him).

A story with all characters being Mary Sues? I had to rewrite it the first go-around due to one of my female leads (my leads are two females) being essentially flawless. Not that I mind someone like Lacus as a main character. She's much better to me than Relena "come kill me Heero" and "the inept princess that surrenders ten minutes before her brother arrives in the wing zero" Peacecraft ever was.

Relena >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lacus. Remember that. Lacus is way below Relena in terms of political mettle, strength of character, and consistency in her beliefs about peace and war, and the strength and resolve to try to carry on with it through it all. She knew what her limitations were, she knew what she was actually putting herself into, and she actually knew that the G Boys were people who didn't need no shit from anybody just to get their own job done. And besides, she actually tried to do something about it too, unlike Lacus who retired to La La Land after the Jachin Due war. At least when you do try to make comparisons with your Goddess, Demongod, I suggest make it actually real?

Spoiler:

fftopic: That story with Mary Sues as leads sure is interesting, though. It'd probably come out as something utterly hilarious because all the Mary Sues are trying to outdo each other with their own Mary Sue-ness. Maybe I'll try creating a story like that sometime... Any volunteers as lucky candidates for this crazy project? I mean, it's like Super Robot Wars on steroids, if it ever comes into fruition, that is... PM me if you do so wish...

Shinn acting doubtful? Great...then he believes complete and utter nonsense. "Athrun and Meyrin escaped to try and defect to LOGOS and blow Operation Ragnarok by giving them Destiny and Legend's specifications and the strategy of Operation Ragnarok!"

Shinn was like "No WAY!" "Athrun?! Meyrin?!" "WHY?!?!?!". He wasn't like, "Oh, OK, all I have to do is kill them off, right?" after he flew off from Carpentaria Base on his spanking new Destiny Gundam. That was just a very retarded thing Dully did, and so adds to my disbelief that Dully's descent to the Dark Side is so badly done. He was questioning Rey, Rey wasn't saying anything, Athrun was trying to talk to Shinn, but Dully and Rey's poisoning already took full effect, and so Shinn decides to stab the blue Gouf or Zaku right through the middle to end Athrun's mindless blabbering.

Remember that Athrun was acting so suspicious lately, Shinn was so let down by his performance against the invincible Freedom (which is invincible no more) and he so respected Athrun that is why he was so let down, and Athrun decides to make a run for it without even giving any explanation whatsoever to his other comrades aboard the Minerva (most especially Shinn since I actually felt that Athrun was very worried about him because he knew Shinn was just a misguided soul) which is actual treachery to ZAFT, because Athrun re-enlisted into ZAFT to begin with.

And then when Shinn finally DOES see Athrun above Orb, in THE JUSTICE, NO LESS, he's STILL saying that Athrun betrayed them even though if he had any knowledge of the previous war, he'd know that Athrun was one of the key players in bringing the war to an END. Yep, he's sure thinking there. He was ready to run Lunamaria through with Destiny's palm cannon. Yep, real thinking going on there. The first time Shinn REALLY thought about things while seeing the ENTIRE picture is after Athrun finally figuratively smacked him in the head with the biggest stop sign he can find. By junking Shinn's Destiny Gundam. It was then and only then, when Shinn came off of his power trip of having a powerful gundam at his fingertips was he finally able to just cool off, look at the big picture, both from being that little kid on the ground, to being the nightmare of the most powerful men in existence, to once again, being that one guy on the ground, looking at the world objectively again.

In fact, it's ironic, because when Shinn finally actually took the time to think without Darth Gichou controlling his mind, he was able to prove Athrun right when Athrun said that Shinn was worth believing in, and that the guy was fighting for the same dream as the rest of the Clyne Faction. Sure, perhaps the ending WAS a bit of a putdown to Shinn's character throughout the series that he simply takes Kira's hand and says "yes sir, yes sir, three bags full, sir", (I would have written it as Shinn taking Kira's hand, but just saying that while they may be fighting for the same thing, there is still some issues that he still has not settled). but on the plus side, Shinn finally gets to see EVERYTHING. Not just "Freedom is bad, kill it! Justice is bad, kill it!" "Durandall is right! Big Brother Gichou is the only way!" that Rey O'Brien was just filling his head with.

Do not underestimate the powers of the Sith, my friend. Nothing Obi Wan Zala could do about that in those crazy moments. Once a person totally poisons another person's mind towards you, it would take more than just a handshake just to clear your head up like you've just taken a whiff of fresh air straight from the country or wherever there's fresh air. So Kira and Shinn's moment in the Final Plus is utterly revolting.

Shinn's belief that Athrun betrayed them is explained in the reply above this one.

And as for Diana >>> Lacus thing, Diana was popular for the same reasons Lacus is: her beauty and charisma. In fact, somehow, I think it was Destiny that Diana had to go X_X. Because she indeed WAS a living Mary Sue.

Diana never WAS a Mary Sue, she had her own faults, and because of course she was part of the Royal Family these faults/problems had to be kept hidden from the public eye, because she's part of that family, and I guess this is where you get your idea that Diana was an actual Mary Sue. The people all loved her because she was Diana, and not because she was the Princess of Wales. She wasn't just loved for her beauty and charisma, in fact, she was more loved for her intelligence, the inner strength she possesses, and the warmth that she seems to exude from her being, bringing a sense of humanity to the Royal Family of Britain which the common people knew were just a bunch of people who are leagues away from themselves and would have nothing to do with the commoners.

Lacus, sadly, doesn't have any of that sort, because you so admitted yourself that she only had her father's name as her passport to being well loved by the people. But she has Lacus dust, which is far more potent than any expert PR man out there on the face if the entire universe, because it intsantly makes the people who ingest it think that Lacus is actually God's gift to humanity and that all the things she does is unbelievably but perfectly right all the time.

And no, Gil wasn't really evil (I was waiting to reserve that judgment until ep 36) until Fukuda just trashed his character along with the rest of the new cast.

Is it just me or are you actually contradicting yourself about the things you try to point out all the time?


And to get back on topic....


I always thought the Destiny Gundam looked like Deathscythe Hell/Custom...