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Originally Posted by eX_ploit
Battler being reliable doesn't mean that he can't be tricked. It simply means that he doesn't lie to the reader, and truthfully describes what he sees and thinks.
As I said, impression that butterflies are shining gold could simply be from the golden glow of study itself.
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Battler's viewpoint, if he is the detective and possesses a reliable viewpoint in that scene, is objective and not subjective. He could be mistaken about things that he didn't actually see, but not about things that he did see. And he saw the butterflies.
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Dlanor: Knox's 8th, it is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not PRESENTED! Until now, you have been the DETECTIVE! Was it ever shown that you were not the detective this time, and that you were an observer with a subjective VIEWPOINT?!! Unless it was, you do not have the right to falsify your point of VIEW!!
Battler: In this game! When I figured out the device of the epitaph's riddle, I witnessed Grandfather. ......As has already been shown in red, Grandfather doesn't exist. It was impossible for me to witness him! Therefore, it has already been shown that my viewpoint wasn't objective!!
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Huh. Actually, that red there seems to mean that even if Kinzo's corpse was propped up in the chair in ep 2, Battler would not have been able to see him while maintaining a reliable viewpoint, even if one would have thought that the corpse would qualify. Battler's narration there said "I could see Grandfather's back".
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Originally Posted by eX_ploit
You misunderstood this part, he's not talking about butterflies there.
He's talking about study itself.
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Battler's viewpoint needs to be objective there in order for your claim that it wasn't a fantasy scene to be correct. If he isn't talking about the butterflies and saying that they are almost like golden confetti, this means that there was something
else there which was almost like confetti but was not actually golden confetti. If it had really been golden confetti, Battler with his objective viewpoint could not have been mistaken about what it was.
But, he was talking about the butterflies. He specifically identifies that the thing that was glowing was the butterflies. Here's the full quote in context.
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At that moment, ...I got slightly disoriented by the dazzling golden glow..........It was, .........somehow, ......a swarm of butterflies, shining gold.
The golden butterflies that were completely filling the inside of the study poured out all at once.......
" Wha-............, ......What is, .............this......................"
It was almost like golden leaf confetti.
The interior of Grandfather's study was filled with a golden glow....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eX_ploit
They were simply brought in a large bottle or something by Jessica and released right before Battler arrived.
And the reason why she did that was simply to shock Battler and make him more believing that she is a witch.
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That's not really something simple. It would have had to be a very big bottle! But okay. If it were possible for Jessica to be there, maybe she could have let a whole load of butterflies out of a big bottle. A big bottle of glowing butterflies, probably not, though.
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Originally Posted by eX_ploit
Disguise is not a word that you can apply to voices.
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No, you're wrong. It absolutely can apply to voices.
Disguising one's voice is even the example they give there.
You will find that there are many instances where the word disguise is used to apply to voices.
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Originally Posted by eX_ploit
And I don't think that we need any extra proof for ventriloqism after we already know that whoever plays Beatrice, has very good acting talent, and voice changing talent. Ventriloqism is not far from that.
And by the way these voice changing clues were the reason, that I started suspecting Jessica in the first place. After all she is a singer in a girl's band.
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Being a singer in a band is very different from being an accomplished ventriloquist. It's a different skill. Learning to sing or even to act won't make somebody a ventriloquist. It's one thing for somebody to act out a different voice on the phone or as part of a Beatrice role, and another to throw one's voice around.
Still, I would say this is a moot point given that Battler could not have been mistaken about Kinzo's voice. It was a fantasy scene.
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Originally Posted by eX_ploit
So just because a pair of words "Jessica's corpse" appears in that red, does not itself mean that Jessica is dead.
The meaning of "Jessica's corpse" is overshadowed by meaning of "Discovery of Jessica's corpse", and I even talked to a japanese translator about this, and he says that this interpretation is even more apparent in japanese version.
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What do you mean, overshadowed? It refers to Jessica's corpse no matter how the sentence is read in English.
When Jessica's corpse was discovered, only Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo were in Jessica's room is what it said. If the corpse did not belong to Jessica, Beatrice should not have been able to say that in red.
Still, let's see. The relevant section seems to be this part. If we've got any Japanese speakers reading this, could you confirm whether the construction of the sentence means that the Jessica's corpse section is somehow negated?
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朱志香の死体発見時、朱志香の部屋にいたのは、@戦人、譲治、真里亞、楼座、源次、郷田、紗音、熊沢、南條 のみだった
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Originally Posted by eX_ploit
Wrong. "No one is hiding" is said in present time. And time of red proclaimations is important. At the time when Beatrice says that, no one really is hiding. But it happens long after the people have visited Jessica's room.
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This is the full quote in context:
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"Let's go back to Jessica's room. When Jessica's corpse was discovered, only Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo were in Jessica's room. Whoops, the corpse of Jessica is also included. Therefore, both in the case of Jessica's room and the case in this servants' room, no humans exist that you were not aware of. No one is hiding."
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Beatrice is talking about both the case of Jessica's room and the servants' room. Nobody was in either of those rooms that Battler was not aware of, and nobody was hiding. There's no way around it. Also, if Battler is the detective there, his viewpoint is objective. He can't have mis-identified Jessica's corpse.
Also, it's as Valkama says. Beatrice would not have been able to give the first red there listing the only people in Jessica's room in a way that did not include Jessica if Jessica had been alive.
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Originally Posted by Valkama
Also what I meant in my last post since I admit I wasn't very clear. Jessica wasn't mentioned in the first red. Beatrice said only those mentioned in the first red were in the room. That means only they could be in the room. The red shows corpses don't count when listing people in the room.
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