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Originally Posted by Used Can
The deal in EP3 is too contradictory with Shaknon. First: 6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!
Naturally, we could always assume that one of them (i.e. Shannon or Kanon) used to exist before, but died prior to October 4 just like Kinzo and that the one who is alive is just posing as the other one. However:
All of them had wounds resembling gunshot wounds which became fatal!
So, if one of them died before 1986, he/she got killed with a fire weapon. And...
It is impossible for the murder to have taken place outside the room!!
When the five other than Kinzo were murdered, the murderer was definitely in the same room!
He/she died in Kinzo's room.
Now, following the pretence that one of them is using the other's name:
The only one who can claim Kanon's name is the person himself!
A different person cannot claim his name!
This means that the one who is alive is Kanon. However, we also have these reds from EP2:
Kanon was killed in this room (This refers to what happened in Jessica's room)
Therefore, the real person, the one who was alive got killed. I think we can assume people die when they are killed. But later we got:
When Jessica's corpse was discovered, only Battler, George, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Gohda, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Nanjo were in Jessica's room
So, after dying, he somehow managed to play Shannon in that room.
Now, all of this can fall down if we say that Kanon and Shannon are different personalities of the same person, and that they count as different people. Thus, they can be counted as 2 by the red. However, this would completely conflict with EP6 red about 17 people Erika included, because Shannon and Kanon should count as 2 people, unless this means R07 can make them count as 2 or 1 at whim, and in that case I'll simply not comment.
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Well yes we know the problem I think it has been repeated a dozen of times already. There has been already quite a lot of attempts to find a solution on everything that you mentioned and I don't think I need to repeat them. Frankly I think that they sound lame and I don't really buy them.
The problem is that you are just looking at it in a one sided manner. As well as there are red truths denying the shkannon theory, there are enough red truths in EP6 that you just can't explain with any theory that is better than the shkannon theory.
So you have the same problem from one side and one other, and the only possible solution right now is to think about some lame loophole in either red, except no matter which side you choose they are both lame.
So you could say well all evidences cancel each out so this is a cat box, but I beg to differ. Because red text not whitstanding you still need to explain what was the meaning of the love test trial, which is arguably one of the center point of EP6. The shkannon theorist have a perfect explanation for it from the beginning to the end. What is your explanation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijriims
EP3 Tea party already stated that the Beatrice from EP1-4 was also a human if not Lamdba's recognition. She is embodiment of rules, but also a person who made those rules and implemented the rules.
4). Support? Well, we all knew that the portrait of Beatrice was not made for Beatrice but for Kinzo, you thought that six years ago because Battler said he loved woman with blonde hair and big breast so someone made the Beatrice portrait according to Battler's wish? of course not. The whole image of Beatrice was from Kinzo's lover and 1967 Beatrice (the one Rosa met), you can even see a sized-down version in Kinzo's study.
6,7) And my point is: don't equate the new Beatrice and initial Beatrice. They have different origin and different experience.
1) Please don't forget there is a TrollBeatrice, if you really believe Beatrice was born from Battler's wish, please articulate how this trollBeatrice was involved in the formation of the real Beatrice (EP1-4's).
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There is a human that is the origin of everything but Beatrice is not a human herself. The EP6 new info overrule any previous info when in contradiction.
4) I was asking for support that Battler has already seen the portrait during that flashback, apparently no. Battler doesn't talk about witches in that scene as far as I remember. He just said he likes western women with blond hairs and blue eyes, now I don't think that the fact that the witch Beatrice happens to be portrayed that way can be considered an inexplicable coincidence...
6/7) Which one of my points refers to the second Beatrice?
1) I find difficult to understand your odd denominations. I suppose Troll Beatrice is big sister Beatrice? Why don't you just call them as they are called in the tips?
If that's her I think I have already explained that she is the personification of the Witch of the legend, the night rulers of Rokkenjima's Mansion (hell she says that a lot herself).
I also explained that Beato (the one through EP1-4 and 5 as dollbeato) is the result of a mix between the Beatrice persona created to love Battler (which is basically how the new Beato is) and the witch of the legend represented by big sis Beatrice.
And I wonder how can this be questioned when it was repeated a dozen of times in the game that "big sis beato" + "young sis Beato" = Beato