[Captain Bluebeard]

Originally Posted by Patchwork Chimera

That's what was happening for Bern to be such an anti-beatrice witch. I agree with her to a certain extent. If you find the one who's torturing you, you don't suddenly make it easy on her. So maybe Prime-Yasu didn't kill anyone. But she was what started everything. And for Bernkastel, who saw how was a world without the woman who started everything (her friends happy, her family complete), begining a massacre indirectly is worse than realizing a massacre, because her dearest friends realized massacres, and all the fault was on Miyo, the one who started that mess

Okay, that characterization is a lot more twisted than anything that is ever said about Yasu. I know Bernkastel is meant to be twisted, but the way you put it, how exactly is she in the right here? Even if Yasu actually is a twisted, horrible, despicable, damned, satan's best pal, how the hell does that make Bern right here?

My problem with Beatrice is that okay, she can be pitied or forgiven. But no one calls on her for her own selfishness and EVERY character in Umineko forgive her and thinks of her as a martyr.

Um... EP3?

Except Bern, and we see why. (Edit: And Bernkastel is treated as an horrible, terrrible villain. Okay, she is, but she's had it as rough as Beatrice... ha. No. She's had it worse)

You don't explode an island knowing what was happening and wait for everyone to pat you in the head because you had it rough. Especially not the guy you start torturing killing his family and that has no freakin idea what you're talking about.

And I'll say again that this is a whole lot more twisted. You know, when a person forgives the ones who crucified them and even spends their last breath pleading for them to be forgiven, it somehow belittles that noble action to say 'nope, those guys are unforgivable, you shouldn't forgive them so easily' (I'm really not trying to get religion dragged into this, just making an example, I'm an atheist).

To say that Bern is right for wanting to crush Beatrice because she cannot forgive her for something she did to OTHER people, just because she had something similar happen to her, and therefore cannot excuse Beatrice for not getting called on it is... at least irrational. Ask the people who get their asses blown, Battler forgave Beatrice, so Bern should just stay in Higurashi and dress up as a slutty cat or something.

I'm not trying to argue about Yasu being a tragic heroine instead of a murderer, I'm just pointing out that forgiveness isn't something to be taken so lightly. The way you put it, Bern is just a spoiled bitch (I know she is, but she's totally not right for it).

Originally Posted by Renall

On the other hand, he's apparently characterized as pretty selfless, at least in the sense that he has no actual self. So that still makes him a better person than either of his masters. Possibly. Unless he's actually a huge dick inside.

Well he kinda just looked the other way when his boss f***ed the shit out of his own daughter who was kinda kept as his own sex-dressup-prisoner.... so....

No, but seriously, I think he's one of the most poorly written characters in Umineko. Taking into account the way Umineko approaches the core of its characters, Genji could have been a masterpiece. Maybe my favorite character of all times. He could.

(But then again he doesn't have the hips for a cute mini-skirt, so I don't think Ryukishi07 agrees with me on this one.....)

There are a lot of people within the context of the story itself presented as living far worse lives than she has and finding hope and strength in them. People who do not pity themselves. People who are desperately searching for a solution.

But arguing 'why didn't they commit murder' isn't really a valid point (not saying you're doing that). It's obviously Yasu's fault for not being like them.

So, I pity Maria. I don't pity Yasu. The world hands Yasu everything and she doesn't want it because of a passing fancy. The world craps in Maria's face on a daily basis and she copes with it. Why should I consider the two equivalent?

I think Yasu is far more pitiable than Maria just for that reason. Maria can cope, she can even turn the shit life throws to her face into gold, and she should be proud of that. Yasu, the complete opposite who has no such ability is the pitiful one.