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Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester

Not true, I've heard theories say that Battler might not even be moving his own piece. That he's just sitting there watching the game unfold.

Battler moved his own piece in EP 2 when he had it 'prove' that Kanon might not have been the one who killed Jessica. Beatrice herself at the beginning of EP 2 asked Battler which was going to be his move.
Bern moved her Erika piece in EP 5 in attempt to corner Natsuhi, though Lambda moved the Battler piece to stop her (Battler wasn't playing so I guess Lambda could move his piece).
Erika moved her own piece so as to create a logic error in Ep 6.

Of course the player can also sit and just let the gamemaster move his own piece too.

I guess it's sort of like playing Sims (a PC simulation game). You can control only one piece at time while the pc hands the others. However if you don't move your own piece the program will force it to move on its own.
Of course, though you can let the computer move it for you... well, at this point you aren't playing anymore.

Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester

Again, not true. Beatrice could have continued the game with his quitting counting as a forfeit and his loss. The reason why she paused the game is because she wanted to place him in a trap.

No, apparently not or else Beatrice's forfeiting the game in Ep 4 would have been counted as her loss. Same goes with her being unable to make another game in Ep 5.

Also which was the difference between making Battler lose due to a trap or lose due to quitting?
Plus Virgilia apparently came up with the Sun and wind strategy afterward.

She needs Battler to accept her as a witch to be able to declare his loss.
If he leaves without accepting her he merely stills the game same as she does when she leaves without making him recognize her as a witch.

Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester

2) Erika just sits and watches as the game unfolds.
Again, that depends on your interpretation of how the game is played.

And the fact that she knew she murdered Kirye and Co and Battler didn't know, fits into this how?
Battler could have said, 'sorry, I didn't let your piece kill anyone' and he could have added 'sorry, but I didn't let your piece close the door of the room I was in so I can get in and out and you can't notice'.

No, Erika needs to have the possibility to move her own piece when she wants to or there's no game, she just watches Battler playing a solitarie.

Originally Posted by unsuspectingvisitor

I think the red truth is like a witness testimony in court cases. You just need evidence to support it.

In Ep 8 the red was defined as a truth in which everyone believed. So either there's already what is judged evidence to support it or it's a well known truth.

In Umineko though they often don't bother providing evidence, in fact Beato says when she uses red she needs no proofs.

However it could be she have proofs, she's merely not showing them to Battler (sort of like when we're told that Erika in Ep 5 actually colllected proofs for her red truth but the narrator wouldn't bother telling us the details of it).

Originally Posted by Renall

I'm paraphrasing ep8, so don't ask me, ask the guy who wrote it.

If you want my personal opinion as to why that contradiction appears to exist, I'm going with "Ryukishi didn't think it out very well and intended for some reds to apply to the 'real world' in ep4 that ultimately would be declared inapplicable or essentially pointless (but not necessarily wrong)."

Hell, I don't even know how that whole Asumu/Kyrie/Battler thing could be independently verified at all. Even if Beatrice believed Battler was Kyrie's son, how exactly did she know it to be true? We have nothing anywhere that gives us any reason to believe it's true short of the narrative leading us along that path. Even if it is true, where did that information come from, how did it get to the people who would use it, and how did they verify it enough to be confident in its status as a red truth?

My theory is that the meta battle took place in the mind of a character that was in the future and therefore knew that truth.
It's possible that, after the Rokkenjima incident, people discovered Rudolf switched the babies or believed him to have switched the babies so much it became a truth.
I wonder if the Sakutarou problem was caused by something similar.
When the meta game began the person playing it in his mind believed there was only one Sakutarou but then he discovered either there were more or that Sakutarou could be reincarnated into another vessel as long as it had certain characteristics....