[Kikaifan]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

But one can hardly call them aimed (or even pointed shots of any kind either, without the people "evading" in ways that just "zig" them right into a beam...

I'm still not getting you on this one. I'm assuming that they move first, and then the beam is fired. I don't assume that they move into the beam, just that they were at or near the point the beam was aimed at around the time it was fired.

That will be trivial compared to why do they use slow beams at all if those in Ep6 were actually beams.

The obvious answer would be that the 'slow' beams are in fact in slow motion. This scene is valuable precisely because it breaks from normal Nanoha style and shows an exchange of shots at full speed without constantly switching back and forth to show the actions and reactions of each combatant in close-ups.

It is not clear that those "giant arcs" of energy actually are in any way harmful. Even the very impressive looking glow of the Jewel Seed did remarkably little damage - RH and Bardiche were damaged, but even the two girls weren't visibly harmed, to say nothing of the surroundings. Fate only got burnt because she has to go touch the darn seed. Light does not equal harm.

Accepted.

But 60+ degrees? Fate's magic generally thus fly straight, not zigzags.

I can't frame-by-frame it, but to me what it looks like is happening is that-

1. The point of the beam moves across the screen in a straight line.
2. The portion of the beam immediately following distorts.
3. The beam 'straightens out'
4. Then fades, leaving behind little remnants.

Could be explained by either the initial portion of the beam forming a path that the rest of the magic follows in better focus, or a sort of 'train wreck' effect caused by the compression of the middle part of the beam when the front hits something. I like the first better. At any rate, the fact that the beams all fade out and only leave remnants over their straight path suggests to me that the majority of the magic is moving in proper beam form.

I'm pretty sure I've seen beams 'rear back' or distort before/while hitting something in other shots too, but I'll have to look later. Think it's there in Nanoha and Fate's beam-o-war in episode 5 and when they go up against the big mecha with the shield in the Garden of Time at the end.

In SoD terms (which by the way is the common standard when it comes to extracting quantitative technotactical data from fictional sources, not "my system") I'll class it as an emission. And this is no unique event.

You are its chief proponent around here though.

Anyway, agreed that random magical discharges with limited effect against mages are common enough, but the consistent direction and timing of the beams in the scene still gives me the impression of weapons fire first.


Other things:

As to the assertion that the scene doesn't match the closeups of the combat, at the very least Nanoha has Raging Heart in shooting mode before and after, indicating she was or was trying to fight at some range.

It's possible they might have been using those intermediate-power 'mini-beams' they create by charging up their basic attacks that show up occasionally in the first season and then disappear until Nanoha 'cools down' Teana in StrikerS.

The city was fine after SLB went through it, but I see your point. Still, it does not inspire me any confidence when barrier jackets and Knight's armor have been damaged or penetrated by:
1) Bugs's windblast
2) Sein's hand (Erio's) (can't blame magic blades here...)
3) Low velocity (compared to bullets) swipes and glances of blades (not a lot of pressure there).
4) Completely penetrated by Type IVs (Type 1s and IIIs produce AMF, but there's no evidence of it from II and IV, and ruther, even a strong AMF has little visible effect against BJs - or we'll be enjoying some nice naked scenes).

I certainly buy that Mid-tech could have made something that can block bullets and blades. But the BJ just doesn't seem to be it. The real pity is that it isn't that hard - the BJs just badly need a single, much neglected component - hard armor plate.

Barrier Jackets, as per the name, include integrated barriers (that or my scanlation of the StrikerS manga is terrible). They aren't just being protected by the cloth. Apparently they're conveniently invisible most of the time, but that glow that shows up on Signum and Fate when they score those glancing hits on each other at the start of the A's 7 fight looked like it might be the thing.

The problem with using examples of BJ and their wearers taking damage from 'physical' attacks is that it's always against opponents using magic or magitech. There's pretty clear evidence that the 'magic sword' excuse is a valid one- Fate's barriers can displace hundreds of kilos of concrete in a high-speed collision, but they can't deflect Laevatein's blade (which, incidentally, gives off arcs of magic in Signum's pink when it hits them). Extending that to 'magic fists' (Arf gets magic arcs just from punching Zafira, YnS breaking Nanoha's shield) isn't hard.

I don't know what to say about that windblast though. That's just ridiculous. Though StrikerS is the season where Hiryuu Issen got deflected by some tiny projectile that looked like nothing so much as one of Kirby's air-puff attacks.