[monster]

Originally Posted by Haak

I obviously meant they'd try to get the NJC. And they don't need to deploy anything. Just have them (or at least make other nations think they have them)



Which is what I was talking about.

They won't be able to try because there's a worldwide ban on NJC and Cagalli won't allow it. Orb is not going to paint itself as a potential aggressor by trying to acquire NJC.

And what we've also seen is that Cagalli isn't idealistic enough to think a mere treaty is enough to keep Orb safe which was your actual point.

That still has nothing to do with nuclear weapons.

Well I'll just have to take your word for it. But like i said, if the EA could wait for a treaty to form, Orb would've had enough time to prepare.

So did ZAFT. So it's a moot point.

A consistent plot hole is still a plot hole. And it's not consistent since this was the first (and only) time shown of EA launching two consecutive nuclear strikes with the second strike still being a surprise to ZAFT when it shouldn't have been.

Boaz was the only time the EA was successful at a nuclear strike after they had decided to annihilate the PLANTs. So it's not inconsistent for them to follow that success with a second attack, thus, no plot hole.

Junius 7 attack was to cripple the PLANTs while, in Destiny, they were not successful.

Just because they're Coordinators doesn't mean the probability is low. I'd say the idea that it's completely foolproof is a much lower probability.

It doesn't have to be completely foolproof, it just has to be effective enough for the EA to decide on another method of destroying the PLANTs.

No they were able to develop a ridiclously expensive and incredibly risky new alternative that they couldn't possibly be sure would work just a mere thirty-odd episodes later...

It's no different than GENESIS. Again, these types of weapons are not uncommon in the Gundam franchise.

If MAD isn't a factor, then I see little reason why they wouldn't try again, especially on Earth when there's no reason for them to automatically believe they have a second and there's little drawback to them doing so.

They don't need to resort to such measures on Earth. The nuclear weapons and Requiem are for the PLANTs themselves, straight at the heart of ZAFT.

We were talking about how EA should not have a reason to believe they can get anything out of Orb. That should stay that way regardless of that happens. It would take a pretty stupid move from Orb to blow that.

We don't have the assurances that it will stay that way.

The costs vs the benefits to the side that wants to attack is the main one. How perspectives can change from previous wars is another. Nuclear weapons is another but that's not related to this point...

The cost vs benefit can change. In SEED, Orb wasn't worth attacking until the EA found itself needing a way to get supplies to space quickly. As for perspectives changing, that also includes Orb, which is why they now joined the EA.

This was not a factor shown in Destiny so that's fanwaking as well.

It was shown when Yuna talked to Cagalli about seeing Orb burned again. That's a clear sign that the danger of SEED's EA is still present with Destiny's EA. So you can't call it out of character when they're making the decision based on their experience and the current state of the world.

No.

The point is, if the EA has an objective, whatever it is, they're not afraid to achieve it by force so long as the benefits outweigh the costs in their perspective.

...

So my point stands then. EA isn't going to attack Orb for no reason.

Orb has no control over the EA's perspective or whether or not they have a reason to attack Orb.

And this doesn't mean Orb weren't aware of that. In fact that was precisely their plan. They knew Athrun and thus ZAFT wouldn't take issue with them, not because they thought Athrun would believe the lie, but because they knew Athrun didn't have a good enough reason to attack. Which just goes to show that there are other factors, other than power levels when it comes to deterrence.

It's still about power levels. Athrun didn't want to attack without proof because of Orb's military strength. But with proof, he could justify an attack to the ZAFT leaders.