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Originally Posted by miketyson
Vena: I'm running out of steam but you make a *lot* of good points, so I mostly agree. One thing I definitely saw differently was Jin's "defeat": I saw his mission as a success, he was there to toy with the Aquarion and suss out its abilities, and he was never "seriously" trying to fight it (let alone beat it); he got a bit surprised by that punch, but still got away with the info he came for. Kagura's fights have seemed more like "real fights", he's lost, and so seemed to me more like real defeats. The difference in how Izumo treated them afterwards seems to reinforce this, but it's all pretty subjective and down to differences of interpretation this early on, I think.
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That's valid, I didn't actually think of it like that, but it really does go to reinforce that Kagura is being played as an unwitting pawn of sorts by his own side.
