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Old 2009-11-24, 19:01   Link #3513
chounokoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I'd think that, for most of the games, the killer and the staker are one and the same, given the way the victim's injuries match the epitaph.

The only game where this is not true is Ep4.

(Also, the stakes can easily be weapons, as I continue to state. They're sharp enough to kill, just not sharp enough to stab people in the head with.)
Yet why would the killer resolve to using a stake to kill in the 2 only possible twilights where their hittingspot is actually deadly AND can be performed without a device propelling them into the body.
Those only two instances are 胸を抉りて殺せ (gouge the chest and kill) and 腹を抉りて殺せ (gouge the stomach and kill).
As you said, the head is unlikely to be pierced by such a weapon wielded with bare hands and the others spots aren't likely to be instantly deadly, they are even treatable.

Of course I also think it is very probable for the staker to be at least a helper to the actual culprit (this would explain why Beatrice/Eva-Beatrice) orders the stakes to pierce the bodies after death. Yet it is not true that the Episode 4 is the only game where the wounds match the epitaph.
Actually the only twilight with matching wounds is 頭 (head), 胸 (chest) and 腹 (stomach), which is no wonder that they are aims of for example a gun considering that those are deadly spots...it would explain to a large extent why there is always a mess-up between the order we saw people die as twilights and how they appeared in the listing.
For example in Episode 2's twilights involving Shannon, George and Gohda, Gohda was the second of them to become a twilight, even though he died first and George and Shannon were shown dying together. If the staker has no idea in what order people died, he just uses the wounds he finds on corpses around the island and sticks the stakes in the right places.

Quote:
Don't forget that most of what we see of Kinzo is actually 'Goldsmith', Kinzo's magical ghost duplicate thing... I doubt much of anything he's ever said is representative of the real Kinzo, and everything else we hear about him is from his children, all of whom hate him.

Fact is we know very little real, concrete information about the guy, other than perhaps the history Genji gives us.
That is true. The only thing we know is that up till some point in 1985 there existed a man named Ushiromiya Kinzo on Rokkenjima, who is the father/grandfather of certain people on the island.
That exactly is the problem I see with Kinzo...so far we've only seen Goldsmith and Natsuhi's Kinzo, the closest we came to real Kinzo were to instances.
One was the memory of Eva, which may be tainted, but I see no reason for her to lie to herself about her father denying her her wishes.
The other is the conversation between a girl resembling the later designed portrait of a female (who is said to be Beatrice) and Kinzo in the garden of Kuwadorian.
Everything else is of course only second hand information.

Quote:
For that matter, what the hell is Goldsmith, anyway? I'm not quite sure whether or not he's just an illusion or a being on the same level as, say, Ronove and Gaap.
That remains a really, really good question.
I still have this odd image in my mind of the culprit pulling a stuffed Kinzo corpse along...even though this is highly unlikely, the only thing that was said is, that everyone in the dining room in Episode 4 saw Kinzo, I think it was never actually put into words that it was Kinzo who was telling them about his plans.
So I think Goldsmith is another representation of the culprit, similar to Schoolgirl Beatrice and Eva-Beatrice...so to say he is 'Kinzo-Beatrice' in a way, partly because of what Eva-Beatrice was told about what made her the next Beatrice.
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