[drobertbaker]

Well Raiga has managed to stir the pot, hasn't she?

Originally Posted by fish eric

People dying from firearms? Do you mean accidental deaths? Murders? Suicides? I have guns and i have never killed anyone either on purpose or on accident. If someone wants to kill someone else they will find a way. Humans have been killing each other since before written history. Back then they did it with sticks and bones.

The figures I used are simply the most recent from the CDC. They record facts, not motives. The fact that we choose to have and use firearms or automobiles or sticks and bones results in those deaths, no matter the motives. They're refered to as "acceptable casualties" to achieve a better life.

Its not fair to blame peoples' actions on a tool. Thats like saying n amount of Americans each year smash their thumbs while nailing just so the rest of the country can selfishly have their right to own a hammer.

It's exactly like that.

Dr. Bob - Don't take any offense please. I just get upset when people blame guns instead of blaming people for shooting each other. So I may have come across a little harsh in my disagreement with your statement....Like that Canadian joke. What was I thinking?

No offense to be taken in sincere respectful discourse, my friend. Thank you for your consideration. By the way, I'm a Canadian who has been living in the belly of the beast for 10 years. I thought your joke was funny, though millions wouldn't. People are so sensitive!

Your are right because to be able to say "These 2 lives are worth more than this 1" Means that you have the ability to judge life. Lives aren't something that can be bought and sold at the local market. Who is to say that my one life isn't worth 5 other so-so lives? Im not religious but I am spiritual. I believe that those kinds of decisions belong to a greater being(s) I think the one thing most sensible people can agree on is that we as a society need to take stock and figure out what is really important to us.

Now this really gets to the heart of the matter!

Lives ARE in fact bought and sold at the individual, local, state, national, and international level daily. Saying that those kinds of decisions belong to a greater being(s) always has been and will continue to be just an abdication of responsibility.

A small obvious example: Someone is drowning. Do you pull him out and save his life or walk on by? Who are you to contravene the decision of the greater being(s) who are drowning him? Refusing to make a decision IS making a decision.

Now you may say this is a silly example, but it's really only a matter of degree. The point is that we DO make life and death decisions daily, whether we acknowledge that fact or not, and as collectives we have more power to make bigger life and death decisions. When we abdicate this power, we leave the decision up to greater being(s). The greater being(s) are not actually who we may think, but rather other PEOPLE who have the strength of will (arrogance, maybe) to make those decisions.

It's a great responsibility, but abdicating it is irresponsible. What if the person drowning is a serial killer? What if we don't know (as is usually the case in fact) if he's a serial killer or not? (See the anime Monster.)

Both Meo and rocket DID get my point. In particular, the noble Meo (and I'm quite sincere when I say that) has actively chosen to devote her life to relieving suffering and saving lives. And believe me, it's at great personal cost. There are much easier ways to make a buck to feed your family. (Right, Meo? Hang in there, kid!)

Her post (as well as her life) demonstrates clearly her sense of personal responsibility. "Well, we can't all be doctors", you may say. But, as she points out, we all could put a few bucks in an envelope and actually save real human lives. And we CHOOSE everyday whether to do that or not.

As I said earlier, we don't like to think about it.

So, these Selecao have suddenly had great personal power dropped in their laps. The range of reactions is about typical:

• Some (II apparently) totally refuse to do anything.
• Some (V) do whatever they can with whatever they have to do as much obvious good as they can, even at the ultimate personal sacrifice.
• Some (IV) totally indulge their own selfishness.
• Some (XI) go on their own twisted personal crusades.
• And some (I) see themselves as the great chosen ones who are going to save the world, no matter the cost.

It's those last ones you really have to watch out for!