[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Which is where I call bullshit. For one thing, what does it mean to "excel at your work"? For another - what makes you say those qualitites the elites have in common (if there are any) are determined by genes?

There was nobody saying in this thread that it's all about genetics. It is about genetics and the nurture aspect.

There are some qualities in which genes have a lot to do with it, but it does not mean that ALL qualities have genes related with it.

Excelling at one's work could mean that he has the genes in order to do that work effectively or is because of another thing entirely.

To take a trivial example - there is no "speak Chinese" gene. And yet more than one billion people speak it. If I'm going to hire someone and need him to speak Chinese, I won't give a damn about his genetic background. I'll want assurances he can speak Chinese, and has already done so, if only in school.

Of course there isn't a speak Chinese gene, it is because some people are more apt to learn another different language than the rest of the entire world, that is why there are bilinguals, polylinguals whatever, you name it. But genes may have something to do in the way he picks up and learn new things rapidly. And besides, if you don't like trying to learn another language, this could also prove to be another hassle as well.

Is that a fact? I thought it was done so they could have a child at all. Fertility was a bit of a problem.

It was one of the facts why there is an arranged marriage rule in PLANT: so they could have children, and then if possible try eluding the 3rd generation Coordinator syndrome, if I understand it correctly, it is by the 3rd generation that the Coordinators are starting to have fertility problems. Not all Coordinators could marry whom they want to in PLANT because of this rule (see: Talia and Dully); there is no marrying for love in strictly Coordinator sense.

Yes, and how are you going to control the environment enough? If it takes a hundred people to "build" one, you don't exactly have a winner of a society.

Who says the Destiny Plan is all about turning the entire planet into a planet of Coordinators?!

Dullindal must've his own grand plans in how to do with this Destiny Plan of his, why else would he be confident about unveiling it to the entire world if he wasn't that prepared? (unlike some random someone dispensing love and peace to everyone... )

No. You don't get my point it'd be totally stupid and irresponsible to implement it on the whole planet, and to make all the sacrifices Gil made and was going to make (Break the world and the annihilation of Orb, to name two) without first testing it on a smaller scale. Look before you jump. Especially if you're playing with the fate of the whole damn human race.

And Lacus and Kira intervening on every possible "evil" invasion and "incorrectness" of their ideals (meaning the "evil" persons, mind you) NOT playing with the fate of the whole damn human race?

See, the problem here was that ===>Fukuda wasn't able to introduce it properly, and the fact that his Goddess Lacus already considered it ill for human comprehension so much so that she declares wildly that Dully is TEH EVILNESS PERSONIFIED ONEONEONEONEONE~~~!!!111<=== just by the help of one measly little notebook that is like...several years old already. How could you even try deducing that as the fact or the truth when we're taught that in order to make a sweeping statement like that, we need to have more evidence, CURRENT evidence, that is? And what evidences that Lacus had? A moldy old genetics/experimentation laboratory? A little notebook? And a speech?

And what sacrifices? Did Dully outrightly blew Orb to kingdom come right away?! He only decided to blow it off from the face of the planet when it disagreed with the Destiny Plan. Breaking the world? The Destiny Plan was all about breaking barriers of the system that was solely responsible for not letting the people of the CE maximize to their fullest potential. How could you possibly say that it could actually break the world? Sure, it takes away free choice, because you can't do anything about it since your genes already decided your fate for you. Sure, it would make them even more mindless sheep. But if you were to make a choice in choosing an inept ruler of free will and a great ruler determined by genes and environment or whatever, who would you choose?

A small scale experiment before trying to implement it on the entire universe? Well, OK, but the world sorely needs change that instant (at least, what Dullindal felt, and what the rest of the CE population felt before being made into mindless sheep again by Goddess Lacus et al) so it would be unfair that he only implements it on, let's say, Republic of East Asia, and if it got so good, and that country prospered, the other countries would be at him for not even trying to implement his plan on the rest of the entire planet and so plunge the world into another stupid war. And you do realize it's that war Dullindal was trying to avoid, right?

Heck, the Destiny Plan was all about equality in the sense of the genes doing that equality thing for you: no more rich kids strutting it up on private prep schools just because only their family's money afforded them that; other deserving students of more ability than they are coming from not so great families would be able to access great education without having to spend lots of money, and so give them access to the high life in which their old, free will life only got them not so far into the social strata.

We test drugs, we test cars, we test teaching methods, we test just about anything that could be hazardous to know exactly what risks are involved and for what results. We should damn well test grand masterplans for the human race.

No, we don't test grand masterplans for the human race. If that were the case, you think we'll be even able to try arguing or debating on this thread? For all we know, the grand masterplan for the human race prohibits exchanging thoughts between, let's say, Class A and Class C and let's say I'm Class C and you're Class A. It's bad for your environment, dallying with arguments from a Class C person like me, because you have to maintain a strict regimen of only being able to exchange thoughts with other Class A people, spending time with them, or what not. If this was still a test drive for that grand masterplan, what would you think of it? Of course, me as a Class C person would be about it, and of course a bunch of other Class C persons will too. And so that grand masterplan will never take place (unless the other Class C persons are so resigned to the fact that they ARE Class C persons and would not have anything to do with trying to change the system). This is given that it's tested, not yet straight away implemented.

Conclusion: It would raise opposition, and the plan would be thwarted.

And taking it to a more understandable level, how would you feel if your parents suddenly decided that your curfew would be, let's say, only up to 4:00 in the afternoon, and they implemented it right away? This is given that it's already implemented, and it was not tested.

Conclusion: It would certainly raise opposition, but if those who implemented it would be very vigilant enough, they would only be subjected to a few years worth of opposition until it finally dies out or explode into an all out war with very massive casualties.

But eating wrong will impair your development, no matter how healthy your genes are. So why is it a good idea to trust only the genes without looking at the actual result? You've never answered that.

Because it's in the genes that determine how far we're going to get if we are to use our fullest potential, not just the things that we eat. It's the map of our entire selves, the other inputs should be the way we were brought up, the society we were also brought up in, and our day to day interactions with people. But our genes serve as the basis for these other things, so that is whyit's like that.

Why should Dullindal chose what jobs those people will take?

No, no, NO. It's their genes that decide what job is best suited for them, and Dullindal is only pointing it out to them, not in any way he chose for them. Unless, of course, he already has this gigantic gene map spread out and is dictating to the entire world what their jobs are...

people i think we're going off topic,so about the topic any one notice when the e.a. put up a good fight the show was good?

The Destiny Plan was one of the other reasons why GSD failed, the question of genetics and how it is relevant to destroying free will or whatever. So it's not entirely going off topic. Although, it seems as if this is starting to become a genetics debate thread...

Dom, the way the EA put up a fight made the show good. But then they have to sacrifice the remaining 45 or so eps in order to put the spotlight back again on the old cast and the shafted nerfed new cast, so it wasn't very good (considering the EA merely became a military entity of cannon fodder and not much else).

Bring back the old EA~~~!!!!