[Neku]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

"Stop fighting" referred to Kira. Not Lacus. I didn't mean to imply they both said it, though they certainly both had the sentiment. Lacus prayed/sang/hoped/spoke for peace and an end to fighting enough that the sentiment holds true to her.

I thought you said Lacus had multiple counts on saying "Stop fighting".
Nevermind, whatever you say then.

Lacus's hypocricy of using force to fight force, waging war to end war, is something even she accepts. She has an entire monologue at the end of Seed, and it doesn't change after.

Where exactly is your point?
How does accepting to use force to fight force constitutes the hypocrite trait in her?

Yes, she wants peace. No, she never said anything about not using force.

And? That doesn't change my point at all: he's still picking sides with each decision, and in doing so is alienating the other side far more than any affection or credit he gets when he defends it. All you're doing is morally justifying the decision. In fights, you don't decide someone's alignment by averaging how many times they hit you and how many times they protected you from getting hit; once hit, twice shy and all that.

He wasn't at all picking sides. He knows what he is fighting for: making the fight between EA/Orb and ZAFT stop for Cagalli.

I didn't morally justified him either, at least in that particular point of mine you chose to quote and write this wall of text for.

It's especially true in a battle when you prevent a decisive blow from being struck, and this is what really gets me about his actions.

I see. So how does that make him a hypocrite?

When Kira stopped the Minerva from firing, he allowed dozens of EA ships and squadrons of mobile suits to launch, which in the end caused many casualties for ZAFT. Even though Kira shot down missiles that would certainly have killed more, or even sunk the ship, from a ZAFT perspective those missiles would never have been fired had the EA navy been wiped out in a single blow, and the people who did die might have otherwise survived.

What I remember was he stunned everyone with his sudden arrival and when gunfire started again, it was all against Kira.

Also remember that when he stopped Minerva's Tannhauser, Kira and Cagalli's motives were for the current war between EA/Orb and ZAFT to end. So, if there was no idiotic authority (Yuuna) at scene in command of Orb to deny Cagalli's identity, there will be no further casualties at all for either sides.

But then again, following your point, how does accidentally forming casualties for ZAFT makes Kira a hypocrite? Did he planned for ZAFT's casualties from the start?

Likewise, when the EA and Orb pressed the attack after Kira helped them, Kira turned his weapons on them. What could/should have been a victory was turned into a bloody stalemate as Kira nulled their attacks and disarmed their mecha, leaving them vulnerable to the Minerva and unable to support their allies. Orb especially suffered for this: the Orb pilots and military, who generally dispised Yuna and favored Cagelli, ended up throwing their lives away, literally in the case of the kamikaze grunt. And when Kira was no longer on the field, ZAFT (Shinn) wiped out the entire Orb task force, killing most of them. So even though Kira saved most of them initially, he also ended up prolonging the fight until most of them died anyway.

That doesn't make him a hypocrite. It only makes responsible for part of the casualties.

About Shinn going crazy, that wasn't in Kira's control.
So you're gonna put all the blame on Kira now? Awesome.

And in the end, that's what both sides are going to remember. Kira didn't change the battle; ZAFT eventually won, and the EA fleet was devestated. But it was bloodier and harder on both sides for his intervention.

Still. Doesn't. Make. Him. A. Hypocrite.

Blowing up the Minverva's gun was defending it? Shooting down EA suits and missiles were defending them?

No, no silly. Defending himself, and Cagalli when everyone started to aim their fire at them. If Athrun, Shinn etc had just stood by the side to watch the show, Kira wouldn't even bother with them.

Again, you're simply justifying the action, not even denying them. From Kira's perspective, it certainly was the right action. I can commend him for sticking to his beliefs.

Why would I need to deny what he did?

But no one gives a damn about Kira's perspective. Orb cares about Orb's perspective. The EA cares about the EA's (many) perspectives. ZAFT cares about ZAFT's perspectives. And all of them agree: Kira attacks them all, and in the end it's only made the battle worse for them.

Yeah, yeah. So where's the part where Kira is a hypocrite?