[monster]

Originally Posted by Haak

Yeah but all she could do was produce noise. There was nothing she could really do about it. It's not hard for them to believe they could try the same thing with nuclear weapons. Uzumi only found about about the Gundams in Heliopolis later after all.

Not without the NJC, they can't. And not if they wish to deploy nuclear weapons under Orb's main military force.

Even if it is hard, that doesn't mean it makes sense for Orb not to try. After what they've been through you'd think they'd try anything. And they did end up forming an alliance with the EA so they must've been pretty desperate.

They can't even try without the NJC.

It doesn't but it does give credence to the idea that she might not totally be against it either. The main point was that you were saying she was idealistic enough to think the treaty would work on it's own. Given what we've seen, I don't think that's true.

What we've seen is that the Archangel crew, including Cagalli, are against the use of weapons like the nuclear weapons.

Because like I said, they thought they could surprise attack. That simply can't work with Orb when Orb have already seen it happen and could prepare their nuclear weapons just as quickly. If the EA could wait for a treaty to form, Orb would've had enough time to prepare.



Three days before? How did you figure that?

From the timeline on GundamOfficial. The last part of SEED had several time skips.

But even so, like i said, it was plot hole that they managed to surprise them (something that you pointed out yourself). I don't think it's wise for us to factor in plot holes because then it's just pointless to argue at all. Anything could happen.

It's not really a plot hole since the EA has been consistently portrayed as such.

Okay fine, let me phrase: Just because it managed to stop an attack once, doesn't mean it's always effective.

What you're saying is not wrong, but the likelihood of it is low when you consider that these are Coordinators building these weapons, who have come up with weapons like mobile suits, NJC, GENESIS.

And beside, it's not like nuclear weapons is the only option for the EA.

It's not wishful thinking at all. It doesn't make any sense to be worried about a nation that has no reason to attack you, regardless of their PR.

Of course not, the problem is if it will stay that way.

The EA didn't have a reason to attack Orb in SEED ... until it did.
ZAFT didn't have a reason to attack Orb in Destiny ... until it did.

Joining the EA is a preemptive move to ensure the EA will not have a reason to attack Orb.

I've already made my point clear that power levels aren't the only factors to deterrence.

What are the other factors in your opinion?

But we only get to find out that the EA from Destiny is the same as the EA from SEED after the treaty is made. Think about the time line dude. When i watched the episode where they formed the treaty, do you think i was thinking "Well that makes sense because I'm going to find out in exactly 20 episodes later, that EA is exactly the same as in SEED!" Obviously not. It's still going to be out character.

No, because we, the audience, can only see what are shown in the episodes. Orb, and especially the Seirans, have been living in the same world as the EA. While we get to skip 2 years after SEED, they are living through it.

In any case, the Berlin example does not prove EA are the same. As I pointed out, EA only attacked Orb because they needed a Mass Driver. Yes they went on to invade Orb anyway, but by then the situation had changed and objectives had changed.

The reason is irrelevant. The point is, if the EA has an objective, whatever it is, they're not afraid to achieve it by force.

In any case the Berlin example doesn't prove anything anyway.

1. As I pointed out earlier, The reason they sent the Destroys in the first place is because ZAFT was there.
2. They carried on invading because there was no resistance any more.
3. But that doesn't mean they'll initially attack anything that moves
4. and it certainly doesn't mean they'll attack neutral nations.

1. ZAFT was also at Orb.
2. The Destroy was meant to destroy all resistance.
3. Sure, most would not. Still, the EA didn't bother distinguishing ZAFT forces from the EF civilians living there.
4. Neutral party is only neutral as long as the EA doesn't want anything from it, as Orb found out in SEED.

So then it stand to reason, they knew they were being lied to and Orb knew they wouldn't really believe them but knew they couldn't do anything about it due to the PR effect.

It all comes down to Athrun not having evidence. In Destiny, ZAFT had their evidence, so they didn't have to accept Orb's lie again.