[Triple_R]

My response to Shadow5YA is in Spoiler Space below. Don't read it if you don't want to be spoiled on the manga and/or the anime.

Spoiler for Anime and Manga spoilers:

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

You mean like how Mami pushed away Homura in the anime,

When did Mami push away Homura in the anime? If anything, Mami tried to make amends with Homura in spite of how Homura had attempted to kill Kyubey. Mami obviously made an olive branch offer to Homura in Episode 2. Homura rejected it, so Mami stopped trying to make up with her.

or how Kyouko and Sayaka picked a fight with one another despite having no person to protect or Grief Seeds to gain from it?

From Kyouko's perspective, there was a Grief Seed to gain from it. The Grief Seed that would come from the escaped familiar that would later become a witch if the familiar was left alone. That familiar being the one that Sayaka had just been trying to eliminate, and still wanted to eliminate.

From Sayaka's perspective, there was people to protect here. The people that the familiar could conceivably victimize if the familiar wasn't eliminated.

Kyouko and Sayaka both had easily understandable and acceptable reasons for their conflict. It made perfect sense for them to come to a severe disagreement and blows.

There was no such good reasons for Sayaka to want to end her partnership with Mami.

The point is that in the heat of the moment, Sayaka no longer cared about Mami,

That's definitely not the impression I had. But even if you're right, there's no sensible buildup to this. We don't see Sayaka and Mami arguing a lot. We don't see them in some sort of dispute over what it means to be a good Puella Magi. In fact, the two seemed to be getting along great together.

just like how Sayaka pushed away Madoka in the anime.

Sayaka pushed Madoka away in the anime because Madoka was basically telling Sayaka how to do her job. And most people don't like being told how to do their job by people who aren't their boss or co-worker. This is especially true when you're being told how to do your job by someone who was offered the same job as you have, but refused to take it. It should not be hard to see how this can be very infuriating.

It is logically unsound, but when angry teenagers make up their mind, they tend not to accept other people's "help".

Where did Sayaka get angry with Mami?

You keep going through this utilitarian approach when when a relationship is not necessarily built on (or breaks apart because of) that.

This isn't just a basic friendship relationship. This is two people who have a shared responsibility together. And these two people both care about that shared responsibility. So it's just common sense to make choices that will help you both fulfill that responsibility.

How about something much more simple: "You tick me off and I don't like or trust you at the moment, so get out of my sight".

Again, I totally didn't get that vibe in Sayaka/Mami's relationship in this manga. Not at all. Not from either side.

I agree that it would be an issue if Sayaka was much more rational in the source material, but she wasn't.

I strongly disagree. I think you underestimate how rational Sayaka was in the source material. I can easily understand and explain everything she did in the source material. I definitely can't say the same of her actions in this manga.

She pushed away Madoka in the anime, and it wasn't to protect her.

She pushed Madoka away because she was pissed off with Madoka, and for understandable reason. I didn't see any reason for Sayaka to be pissed off with Mami in this manga. None at all.

If your self-esteem is down the drain, fighting with others also means they're doing most of the work for you.

Part of my argument is that there was no good reason for Sayaka's self-esteem to be that low to begin with. As I argued before, this manga flanderized her in this regard.

I disagree on this part, mainly because the central issue that led to Sayaka's fall in either story is still similar, and still easily avoidable in my opinion. She could have confessed to Kyousuke, and even if she didn't, she could have taken pride in the fact that she did indeed save him.

I disagree. It's reasonable for Sayaka to want to wait until Kyousuke is at least out of the hospital before confessing to him. But the very same night he leaves the hospital, she finds out about one of the hidden truths of Soul Gems, which made her feel like a zombie. "I'm no longer a human, so I can't confess to a human" makes some sense to me, though I admit it's overplayed in anime.

Here in this manga, Sayaka didn't have these factors to deal with. And the manga even gave her the perfect opportunity to confess to Kyousuke.

Her entire issue with self-loathing and believing Kyousuke is also hard for me to sympathize with when you have both Mami and Kyouko losing their entire families and Homura going through everything she went through.

Unrequited love often makes people do self-destructive things. It's a big deal to an old-fashioned romantic like Sayaka.

Mami and Kyouko certainly endured greater personal tragedy, but it doesn't seem like they had the same unrequited love issues.

Having high disdain for a person does not necessarily mean you hate the person enough to wish for their death.

It does make it odd to come rushing to their aid though.


In conclusion, I think my criticisms of this manga are legitimate.

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

That's a boring approach to things. I usually take the exact opposite: Stuff is canon unless stated otherwise.

If stuff is useful in filling in blanks that you know are there (i.e. just from the anime alone, we know that Kyouko knew Mami, so the two most have spent at least some time together), then I tend to default to treating it as canon.

Otherwise, I'll take it or leave it on the basis of whether or not I like it.