[Felyndiira]

I apologize if I seem a bit insistent. As a Saki fan, most of my enjoyment actually comes from these little things in the manga, so I very much enjoy debating on playing styles and the likes.

Originally Posted by night_sentinel

Toki's Speed < Kasumi's Speed
Kasumi hand formation should be fast. She only has one suit and honors to choose from. Unless Toki actively bends probability toward her like certain monsters, there is absolutely no way that she could be faster than Kasumi. Statistically, Kasumi should form her hand faster than Toki.

I just went and checked the manga again and Kasumi win somewhere around the 7th-8th turn. That is almost like TERU. If you look at the discards, the wins in the quarterfinal captain south round that is shown is really really fast. Most of the wins that thwarted Kasumi, which was shown, happens before the 6th go around.

This is the one that I disagree the most about. I've looked back at Toki's matches in the anime as well (manga does not show discards), and found the following five wins from Toki:

• 8 turns (ron on Achiga)
• 7 turns (ron on Achiga)
• 10 turns (tsumo)
• 7 turns (tsumo)
• <= 6 turns (tsumo) (this is likely about 3-4 turns; less than 6 is definite since no there is not a second row of discards).

This is evidence that Toki also completes her hands at lightning speeds in most situations. It's unknown how this will interact with the suit restriction (although since having 2 instead of 3 suits makes reading tiles easier, she should actually be able to at least tenpai faster with her ability).

Kasumi only Tsumos with her ability twice in the manga. The first time, the discards are simply not shown. The second time, she won with a flush on the ninth turn. Since she turtled after that to prevent herself from dealing into a rinshan on an honor tile (this was explicitly stated), her hand pretty much did not progress to winning hands after that; still, given the number of honor tiles she discarded on the second win, I would highly doubt that she has that high of a chance to win on 6 turns or less. 7-8 turns is exactly where Toki is with her ability and luck.

Adding in disruptions and the potential to lock her wins by drawing a honor tile in the middle of a round, and I would say that the two are about equal in pure hand completion speed.

Originally Posted by night_sentinel

Toki's firepower < Kasumi's firepower

I agree with this entirely. Even with limits on Dora, having a 8000+ hand on every win

Originally Posted by night_sentinel

Toki' stamina< Kasumi's stamina

This is completely fair if we're talking about the individuals. However, Toki's health is such that she would likely lose by disqualification (by fainting), which makes discussions about individual tournaments kinda meaningless.

Originally Posted by night_sentinel

One of the reasons, Toki was curbstomped is due to Teru's ridiculous fast hands.

Actually, if you look back at East Round 3, Toki actually declared riichi (given her future sight ability, it means that she foresaw that the round will pass and that she'll draw the tile she needs - this, by the way, would have been a 6 round tsumo). Teru actually overrode her predictions by calling a tile, which caused the winning tile to end up in Achiga's hands.

Toki's lessons from that round: Teru is hax enough to override future sight.

Given Toki's records, I don't really think the ridiculous fast hands was the reason that she wasn't able to complete a single hand against the champion (remember that Kirame was also skipping a lot of Teru's turns, so that 7-round hand is actually a lot more in Toki's perspective). Rather, the fact that Teru can out-hax future sight and basically give the finger to Toki's power seeing is a more prominent reason than anything else, I would think.

Originally Posted by Serperior

EDIT: Oh, while I'm here, can I ask on your opinion about these three players: Sumire, Kirame and Mairu. I think asked you guys on your opinion about Mairu being a normal player but if you think about it, Kirame also has an ability but she's considered a normal player. Sumire, I think is also a normal player since her 'Piercing Arrow' style is a play style and not an ability.

It's hard to see Sumire's ability as being 'normal'. Basically, for the entirety of the game, Sumire has to be able to predict - almost tile to tile - what the opponent's hand looks like as it progresses and be able to draw the tiles that she needs to exactly match an opponent's discard (and remember, she had to predict the next discard rather than the winning tile, which you can't really reliably do by just reading the discard pool).