[XenahortCharybdis]

Originally Posted by Liingo

Part 1: I’m liking the atmosphere that you’ve created for yourself here. Also what’s this, competent males in the TSAB! This is madness Good to see Acous have some love in the fic as well.
Part 2: Nicely written battle sequence This guy is awesome in all accounts. I’m going to have a look at their profiles again once I get the time.
*hands cookies*

*munches cookies*

Thanks!

Madness? This. Is. Cadia.

And Acous is gonna get some more love from me before this is over. I apologize for all gay under/overtones in that statement, they are absolutely groundless.

Ash? He's not powerful as in "ka-boom" powerful, but he's powerful as in "just-as-planned" powerful. Their profiles need a bit of redo-ing, thanks to you if I remember. Not that I'm complaining, that helped me a nice bit. You'll prolly see them on Ghaz's index post. Eventually

Originally Posted by Liingo

Cort's writing an AU. Hammer that into your heads everyone. AN AU! Yes I know that the rest of us write OC's (and all other things) following canon. That's no reason to start the flaming. Just ignore the posts instead so that the rest of us can get back to reading the thread in relative peace (well as peaceful as it gets )

Amen, brother. I couldn't have put it any better. Although honestly, I'm very interested to see what this AU has to offer...

Originally Posted by Kha

I don't know what to believe in any more. Seriously how did we handle An Hero? Why did we lose the touch? Or is it because we now have radical elements?

Radical Elements can be suppressed, we're all radical in there somewhere

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Spoiler for long rant:

*headdesks repeatedly at Keroko missing the goddamn motherfucking point*

Let me rewrite that and then explain for you, Keroko. I am not in the best of moods after spending a 12-hour shift dealing with morons and the scum of the paying public as well as morons in the call center who, like Comartemis, refuse to listen. Even when they are wrong. Let's leave that aside and get to the essay.

Now, Comartemis is saying that RF6 is going to wow everyone that they will all fall over and worship the aces. We have seen from history, and human nature, however, that this is not true. The British Special Air Service are the most sucessful special operations unit in the world, and have a great many detractors. The US Army's elite Delta Force, the supersecret counterterrorist team, went through a rocky start: despite having similar levels of backing and support as did Hayate, Delta was nearly closed several times by Army brass who disliked the fact that special forces were upsetting the status quo. The same thing happened with the US Navy's SEAL Team Six, which was a maritime counterterrorist unit; the regular Navy hated SEAL Team Six and kept trying to close it down for a long time. (In fact they suceeded in doing so: SEAL Team Six was disbanded in 1991. It was, however, quietly restarted under the name of Naval Special Warfare Development Group.)

In the 1980s, the US Air Force was doing all it could to kill the idea of special operations, so much that it was actively sabotaging the 21st Special Tactics Squadron, the only special operations unit in the US Air Force. One of the more spectacular times was when 21st STS had to deploy to Panama for Operation Just Cause... and the USAF cargo plane that was supposed to take them took off without them.

What is the point? The point is this. It is unreasonable to expect that RF6 will wow everyone. RF6 is the new kid on the block. It is upsetting everyone's status quo. It is grabbing people from here and there. It is being led by a GIRL, and not only that, a CRIMINAL. And RF6 is going to wow everyone and everyone loves them?

The crew of the USS Enterprise-D loved Ensign Mary Sue this much as well, as some who are old enough to recall will remember.

This has nothing to do with the military. It has everything to do with human nature. We humans don't like it when someone shows us up, when a noob shows up and does better than us. This has happened before to units made of mundane people. How do you think the rest of the Bureau is going to react to being shown up by a bunch of girls? Hell look at Ghost in the Shell: Section Nine is badass, and they keep getting fucked over by politics. And Aramaki is an experienced wheeler and dealer.

Consider that.

As for yanking the girls out of RF6? Setup for drama. GF brass gets jitterry and decides to overreact by yanking Nanoha and Fate out. From there we have a number of branching points. 1) NanoFate go like good GF soldiers. 2) NanoHayaFate mass togther, limiter all release, and proceed to show GF brass why you do NOT fuck with the Aces. These are just two rough general outlines and there's actually more ways to develop this but I'm tired and my eyes hurt so I'm not going to bother and anyway I'm writing things in a different direction.

Though really as stormturmoil pointed out in IRC (you really should come in here at times), GF would he rubbbing their hands with glee at getting 3 aces. The problem is that they don't want all that firepower massing together.

Also, Keroko, with regards to the hypocrisy of the military geeks who have made the TSAB more restrictive than it is in canon: show me where I have done so. In fact we actually don't know if TSAB discipline is just relaxed at RF6; note that many special forces units in the world are very relaxed about such military details. Hell the OFM go DRINKING TOGETHER. And PARTYING WILDLY. And ERICK JOINS IN. If that's restrictive... i dunno what is. And Franz is always being punished with more paperwork instead of more appropriate punishments.

But really, the whole crux of this is simple: We're interested in how Comartemis will carry out his plans.

We'd just like him to at least listen and remember that commonsense still applies to dealing with people.

That said I will make a conscious effort to tone down the abare and approach his stuff with an open mind. I would like you all to note, however, that I have not been frothing at the mouth or going abare, which is generally a good sign.

Also as regards to something Comartemis said on Hayate's political capital: If you want her to have political capital, she's going to be shafted in the deployment, comar. Political capital is only built up through years of wheeling and dealing and office politics: this was pretty much what killed Colonel Charlie Beckwith's career; he spent so much time in the field he neglected political powerplays and got shafted out of becoming the first head of the US Special Operations Command.

I think I'd like to make a very important point here: StrikerS in many ways, like Nanoha in many ways, is representative of an ideal, and so in some ways you can't blame them for being unrealistic. As a matter of fact, I find that in the light of the ideal that Nanoha tries to embody as a series, Comart is actually more accurate! Not that this ideal is bad, I love it for its own idiosyncratic good points.

And on a less important point: First, I think CRIMINAL is a bad word to use in describing our Commander here. It wasn't used by everybody, notably only by a certain cheesehead who ended up with 3 nice red holes in his chest. Second, being a girl is apparently no problem in the TSAB when it comes to command. We have two female Admirals, a female representative for the Saint Church, and a lil' boy for top dog Enforcer of a whole ship. Regius is like token resistance in some sense actually

Lastly, I think we're all stubborn sometimes. Soften your edges a little, it tends to help a great deal when dealing with others. They won't feel so poked and prodded, or worse, stabbed that way.

Anyway, Comart, if ya still/ever/did think I'm a piece of work, then consider this my humble apology to you

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Touche on the commonsense, Kha. But when more then one person is raising the same point, you really should start taking a closer look at things.

Though another reason is because you're Khracked. Nobody expects you to see things the way we do. [/me pokes]
[Goose has poked Kha for xxxxx EXP]

xxxxx EXP where x = 0, my dear Abare-tan
He's Khracked, but he makes perfect sense to me this time. And I thought I was the one who didn't like Khrack.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

I still don't really get how my original starting point was so undecipherable; the connections are obvious. RF6 = Special unit; brass dislikes special unit becuase special units disrupt status quo as is human nature, ergo RF6 being wowed and worshipped by everyone makes no sense. Hell even in a group of 20 people or less you're not going to get something like that.

I'll simplify it further: this is something proven by observation by researchers: People do not like it at all when new kids on the block show them up. For the Bureau to be wowed by RF6, even the people who RF6 inadvertandly made to look bad, is unrealistic and counter to human nature.

Show up somebody and they will dislike you, simple as that.

That's the brass. But there's a thing called 'reputation'. In the Art of War, 'reputation', 'morale' and stuff like that, just for the sheer stark realism we seem to need here, is just as important as 'bureaucracy'. And 'reputation' gives you people power. If the brass don't worship them, the people will, I tell you. It's the "ubermesch" concept, the Superman syndrome people get.

This is a.k.a Hero Worship.

Too much politics in this analysis, and too little anthropology. We might need a rethink here. I find the Aces being worshipped for their reputation and stuff plausible, and by extension of this reputation, RF6.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Now you know how I feel about talking to you. I have suceeded in inflicting on kha what he has inflicted on me!

*Me cackles madly with the insanity derived from exactly 4 hours of sleep in 48 hours*

Somehow I don't think that's a very nice thing to be glad about

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Don't worry too much about clarity; some stories write themselves. Five Minutes, forexample, basically only had one scene planned out with clarity: Franz vs Nanoha, Divine Buster vs Divine Buster Extension. Everything else sorta wrote themselves. Hell Psycho/Leena wrote themselves

So much for realism and clarity, where did it go...

I'll go look for them in your closet, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Raging Heart

@ Wild Goose: lolz sometimes when read some fictions, have in them some madness, it make you wonder what the hell or you go all laughing about them.

Just as Planned, Raging Heart, Just as Planned.

Originally Posted by PhoenixG

I guess we only have naked people around it, due yakyuken <.<; >.>;

I BLAME KRISS LANCER!!!!!

Originally Posted by Comartemis

More or less. And I liked it better before the TSAB showed up. Of course, the fight scenes didn't get really exciting until after Chrono poked his nose into Nanoha's business, so there's a nice little trade-off going from old-school magical girls into this new kind of shonen/magical girl hybrid series. I just wish they could’ve kept the bureaucracy somewhere else where we didn’t have to see it.


Pretty much, but take a look at how they're portrayed in-series.

Take Yuuno for example. The poor guy basically exists as a foil for Nanoha, to bring out and display her character traits in the early part of the show. Firstly there’s his role as the instigator of the whole thing, the pseudo-mentor figure who teaches Nanoha about magic and gives her RH. For the first few episodes, he’s basically nothing but the talking animal sidekick, and every other thing he says is meant to show some quality of Nanoha’s.

“I’m sorry, I’m sorry, this is all my fault” gives Nanoha the chance to show how willing she is to help out, which is the single biggest difference which separates her from her predecessors. “Oh wow, Nanoha can transform without the incantation” shows what kind of natural skill she has, followed closely by “Holy shit! Divine Buster!” Once Fate and Arf show up, Yuuno has already started to fade into the background, taking the role of a counter to Arf’s presence and keeping Nanoha from getting tag-teamed. From this point onwards, the focus is almost entirely on Nanoha and Fate because Yuuno has served his purpose, something that becomes more and more clear as the series progresses into A’s and StrikerS.


Remember when Nanoha powered down Blaster 4 and RH had cracks running through it and Nanoha could barely walk on her own? That's pretty much what ExCalibur does to Rex. The difference is that there's no permanent damage to his linker core and a few days of simple bedrest--no real medical attention really required, though he'll usually get it anyways--will have him back on his feet and ready for action again.

As for everyone commenting on the timeline problems, particuarly Goose:

I am already in the process of hammering out the problems mentioned with the common sense and brainstorming ways to feasibly get around it. My biggest idea at present is going back to the A’s epilogue and having Hayate join the navy instead of the ground forces, which introduces her to an OC captain who’s basically the TSAB’s version of General George S. Goddamn Patton. Where things go from here is anybody’s guess at the moment, but the most likely situation is something occuring during the timeskip which thrusts the Aces into the public spotlight in a very big and very heroic way. The military may not like the new kids on the block, but so far as the masses are concerned, they may as well be real-life superheroes, and as ATC pointed out to me, public support can be an extremely powerful weapon if it’s used right, especially in the political arena.

Public Support can stand on equal grounds with Politics. The power of a few is petty compared to the power of many. History, too, has proven that many times over, and will continue to do so, I believe.

I'm a real dreamer now

Originally Posted by Kha

I am not your mother, Goose. I don't have to teach you these things. But lately your behavior has been less than satisfactory in the thread, and sorry to declare that as it was with others that I shall not name, I have judged you to be one of the sources of conflict in this thread. I know not of the best method to intervene; my action might cause more bitter reaction than it is now; but I certainly cannot just standby and do nothing. For better or for worse, here I go.

It's over Goose. I have the higher ground; any more struggles will only be worse for us.

You're sounding like...what's that Jedi Master's name? Ah, yes, Obi-wan.

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

Actually, I'd like to scream at you all (for most of those involved) for being such stubborn and hotblooded people. You made Cadia Zwei cry just now...

If I put this into an Anime you'd be a yandere, Aaron, HONESTLY. But I think it suits you

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

Cadia Zwei: <cried herself to sleep>

>.>

:t witch:



*Xena takes up arms against whoever it was who made Cadia-tan cry!*

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

1) Comartemis: Remember one of our conversations about ignoring most comments? It's not very healthy to ignore all of them, though. I am gonna take up a stand to ease up on the flak here. But I want results from you as well. Okay?

Seconded, and I think justifiably so. I'm actually looking forward to your AU. Call us if you need us

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

That's it. The report buttons have never looked so appealing to press right now.-_-

Really, do people have to keep making life difficult for everyone? Coma, listen a bit more, please. Hopefully, they would be less scathing now. And you don't have to follow everything, you just need to receive them at a calmer way. Goose, I said what I wanted. Now, if you wanna continue this argument with your attitude further, let us talk in PM or IRC. NOT HERE.


Meeting adjourned. Any further unneeded arguments will be taken to PM's or IRC. No buts.

My view?

Less Noise. More Action. From Everyone.

Originally Posted by Kha

*hugs and cries with Cadia Zwei*

T_T

Damn I can't sleep... So much left unsaid, so many poisonous selfish thoughts...

EDIT: *looks below*

And so many spectators...

Who'd wanna watch you cry? Go weep in a corner with Anita or something already...

*Xena looks at Kha...*

Oh, alright. Have a tissue, Kleriker.

*me pats Kha on the back*

EDIT:

ARRRR!!!!

Everyone ninja'd me like HELL while I was typing.

Sigh, I need to type long-posts fasta...

*hangs head*