[Vindi89]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

orochimaru is weak against genjutsu

Since when? The only person that ever put him in one was Itachi.

particularly sharingan based ones.

Who isn't other than another Sharingan user, rinnegan user or puppet aka Sasori?

Your example was pointless because I was speaking of a completely shielded vision (somethign Naruto didn't do)

i feel the same way...

Good cause you can go argue with your own words now. I'm done going in circles here.

Originally Posted by Vindi89

Orochimaru should have used Edo 1st Hokage to beat Itachi. It makes no sense though since the author intended Itachi>Orochimaru. (This is a plot hole)

no it isn't... this makes no sense at all

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

i agree with Ero-Senn1n that we as fans of the series can work out the retcon to make sense for the lack of power that hashirama displayed against sarutobi

That's you acknowleding a plothole yet now saying it makes no sense btw.

Originally Posted by Vindi89

Orochimaru doesn't even need to look at Itachi to fight him. Just have Edo 1st Hokage deal with him.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

pure assumption based on nothing

Nothing? Then you're retracting:

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

it's one precaution to take against itachi sure

And ignoring a very similar situation in which:

Originally Posted by Vindi89

Oh how about that time when Kakashi told Gai and the other Jounins not to look into Itachi's eyes. What about when Gai attacked Itachi without looking at his eyes?

its you who have resorted to name calling and randomness since nothing you say holds any water

I've called you a biased itachi fanboy (do I really need to prove this?) and dense (take a look at you arguing against your own words as evidence if need be). I don't think I've miss named you one bit.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

assuming itachi couldn't beat the ET zombie which is a dumb assumption

Originally Posted by Vindi89

As beastly as you think Itachi is, he couldn't stand toe to toe with the 1st Hokage as far as he's been hyped up to be

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

no one but madara can

this proves you have not payed attention to anything I've said.

Well, we certainly know you haven't been paying attention to anything you said.

long long story short, orochimaru's ET was not capable of using the first to his potential.

This is your own assumption based on absolutely nothing other than your brain being incapable accepting that Hashirama was later reconned after his first introduction in that fight. You don't have to take my word for it either. You see other forum-goers actually use their brain as a person who exists outside of the world of Naruto and come up with the LOGICAL conclusion, NOT some biased fanboy assumption.

Originally Posted by james0246

One possible suggestion is that Orochimaru's control of the dead wasn't as strong, so the summoned souls could slightly disobey his orders (I.e. they would fight, but not at full power).The most likely speculation, though, is that Orochimaru simply ordered the zombies to play around with Sarutobi.

Originally Posted by Hunter

The latter isn't even speculation, it's a fact apparent from when Orochimaru explained he was doing it to torture Sarutobi emotionally and was then confirmed in the Data book.

Originally Posted by Hunter

Now of course the real answer is the fact that powerscaling has dramatically increased in the last ~450 chapters

Originally Posted by Shining Celebi

james has a great interpretation above. But to state as an unequivocal fact that Orochimaru's Edo Tensei zombies couldn't use their full powers is wrong. These are all nothing more than our attempts to paper over a gaping plot hole in the story.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

it was explained by kabuto to ET deidara.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt here and went to reread that chapter (513 pg 2). Kabuto merely says he is using a different tailisman that won't completely supress Deidara's personality unlike Orochimaru's. There's no mention of of the first or Orochimaru's ability to use ET.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

if you want to disregard the retcon, then at that time of oro using ET on sarutobi, hashirama wasn't that strong and couldn't beat sarutobi with his brother and oro on his side. therefore, he couldnt have beaten itachi either. get it? good

This is the icing on the cake. To have you actually spit back at me what I've been trying to drill into your head for the last 2 pages is priceless.

Yes, Orochimaru, ET 1st and ET 2nd Hokage didn't beat the 3rd Hokage. He definitely couldn't beat Itachi with what was displayed in that fight. Later Harashima was reconned to be an uber ninja second only to Rikkudo Sennin at this point in the manga. I was never ignoring or disregarding the recon. It has been the point of my discussion from the beginning. Its your fanboy mind that's still stuck in this being an Orochimaru vs Itachi fight (which I've stated 2 times prior and finally a third time: I'm sure the author meant for Itachi>Orochimaru).

So please feel free to go argue with yourself, because apparently you're really good at it.

PS: I don't mean to drag anyone else into this (pointless) debate by quoting you, I was merely borrowing your words to prove a point.