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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma
There's no evidence supporting that Luffy could tango with the VAs pre-skip. Back then, he was quite frankly pathetic compared to the high tiers and top tiers. It took the combined efforts of the entire strawhat crew to take down just one pacifista. The VAs are of a much higher caliber than that.
And I'm not talking about post-skip here. I was commenting on your assessment of Luffy's strength pre-skip. None of his feats at that time demonstrate he could deal with the VAs. He didn't even know how to manifest his haki back then, an ability which all of the VAs are adept at. All of the evidence presented by Oda regarding the VAs is indicative of them being superior to Luffy pre-skip.
Vergo and Smoker most certainly count. A VA is a VA. The only real outlier amongst the VAs is/was Garp.
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You mean Luffy taking out 2 Shichibukai is something anyone could do? Granted the croc fight was a plot armor fight but he still beat him. And you are still forgetting Rob Lucci, even the VA's respected him yet Luffy beat him. I'm not saying the VA's can't beat him, I'm saying Luffy was already close to VA strength. Ofcourse we don't know for sure how strong they are, but that also means we don't know if all of them could beat Luffy. There's just no evidence to support your claim. And again we have no clue as to how strong a VA is compared to a Pacifista. If a VA is capable of defeating a pacifista in 1 blow just like Luffy then I wonder why none of the VA's could stop Luffy in the Marineford arc. Their strength is unproven until we see them actually fight.
I don't count Vergo and Smoker because 1 has said to chase Luffy to the end of the Grandline and the other is a right hand man of 1 of the strongest Shichibukai, they don't follow the normal VA pattern.
And Haki has been a mess ever since it was introduced. Ace never knew Haki and it only proved disastrous against Blackbeard and Akainu, arguably 2 top 10 fighters. Yet he was still seen blowing away marine ships.
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Originally Posted by Randrak42
Oh yea, let's not forget that it took the WHOLE CREW to BARELY defeat a Pacifista pre-timeskip...and Luffy's timeskip power jump allowed him to ONE-SHOT A PACIFISTA. Luffy, Zoro and Sanji went from being helpless against a pacifista alone to destroying one in a single hit...they literally became much stronger than their whole pre-timeskip CREW. The Pacifista was 1/8th of Kuma's strength if I remember correctly...and I highly highly highly doubt Kuma is admiral/yonkou level, even pos-timeskip with the upgrades.
And I've had this conversation in the anime thread before but...VAs don't have that position because they are pretty and shiny...there FEW VAs in the marines, it's not a position that many have at all (I think there's like 12 or something). Plus all VAs are Haki users...and most look like they know Rokushiki too.
So what if Rey trained him? You can be trained by the strongest fighter in the world for two years and not become top level...having a powerful teacher helps a lot, but it doesn't mean you're instantly top level once you're done.
PLUS, Rey only taught him Haki, he didn't teach him anything else and left once Luffy learned all he could about Haki...the rest of Luffy's training came from living on that island.
I do not get why people want Luffy to be at the top level so soon...THEY JUST GOT TO THE NW...for christ sakes, we are the half way point and you want him to be at the top level? You want the crew to have three guys near, if not at yonkou level so soon? Why? So they can easily destroy everyone they meet and be boring? Having Luffy be much stronger than the enemy is fun and all but it quickly grows boring...there's no sense of danger if he is as strong as the strongest guys.
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When One Piece started Luffy didn't gain any power up till the water 7 arc. I'm inclined to think that the same will happen now. Luffy will remain just as strong till we are almost halfway through the 2nd half of the grandline. Oda has never used that many power ups and it has really helped to keep the story interesting. So no I don't see the problem in the trio to be High level. Will they be able to go toe to toe with admirals, no. But I don't see any VA stop them if things get real.