[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Way to miss the point and moving goalposts.

I haven't moved the goalposts. It remains about how Saeko's claim that producing fiction somehow makes you an expert on the subject matter. Especially fiction that doesn't even attempt to be realistic.

And here you are giving lectures about being considerate?

I may be inconsiderate, but I'm not a teenager's legal guardian talking to him and his friends.

I suggest you cool off both your mind and your attitude or STFU.

Of course, Kettle.

Come back later when you're sober and we might have a decent discussion going. Or if barging in pointing shotgun at everyone in the room is your idea of discussion then please close the door to this saloon from the outside.

Shotgun? What, exactly, are you trying to accuse me of?

Have I somehow used personal attacks? Like tell someone he had no right to express his opinion? Implied he was drunk? Or deformed his post in the name of "correcting" it?

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

Red. Your post is quite irrational, but I will try to get the most out of it.

So gracious of you.

It is unclear if by titles you are referring by galgames, shoujo manga or pink prose,

Does it matter? It can be any fiction, but is especially valid of works that put no emphasis on research and realism, like galgames, shoujo manga or pink prose. (Non exhaustive list.) I don't even know where you pulled those examples from.

but in each and every on of those the reader needs something he can relate to, we are not talking about some alien experience akin to an acid trip. That is why in said media is common that the main character is a high schoolers, which is what most of the time the readers are (or were) themselves so they can relate to the events. If the situations are unrealistic the reader can't relate to the story and will drop it, even in a fantasy setting where you have the love story between a human and a youkai (or alien, or robot) what the reader is gauging is how much he can relate to it, in simple words, how realistic the romance is.

But as I said, reality is unrealistic. Works must be believable, but that's not the same as realistic. Especially when the avowed goal of such a work is to escape the tedious or painful aspects of reality. (Like the fact that, as a rule, everyday average high schoolers don't get harems of girls completely obsessed with them.)

Where you you want me to screw it for you? No, seriously, it is beyond wild to think that the prior text somehow is trying to make people believe that a painter is a surgeon (albeit some surgeons are painters).

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that even if you limit to anatomy, a painter's knowledge doesn't compare to a surgeon's.

But a writer (where you do galgames, manga or prose does not change the title) does learn a little from human behavior (it can be a mix of instinct, learning from interactions with your fellows and even reading some psychology books) to produce his manuscripts and Saeko's work is all about romantic relations. Are all galge writers as good at gauging your fellow romantic relation? probably not, but I have no trouble believing there can be some galge writer's as skilled as Saeko IRL.

And I'm saying it's specious because:
- galgames don't even attempt to be realistic when it comes to human behavior;
- it doesn't matter because galgames buyers aren't looking for realistic human behavior;
- even if the previous two points were wrong, it still wouldn't mean that writing galgames, even being good at it, enables you to read the truth of a relationship at a single glance. It's even more ludicrous as a Sherlock Homes-expy guessing your life story from the way you chose to dress today.

... and it gets even wilder, now you are saying (yes, it is you) that an actor due to mimicking how a surgeon reacts in front of people gives the actor the uncanny powers to make surgical operations on human beings. Read carefully, when Hugh Laurie learns to mimic the procedure of an operation (which he never does for his actor job) then it would make sense to assume he can really do a surgeons work.

Actually, I spoke of diagnosing people. Because that's what Dr House did. Diagnostics. That and take drugs. (Or so I heard, I haven't watched the series.)

All to illustrate the absurdity of Saeko's premise, which you share: that producing an imitation that convinces laymen (or that they at least find compelling enough to overlook its flaws) somehow means you're an expert at the real thing. Now, I know an actor doesn't have role analogue to that of a game developer. Maybe I should have looked up the name of a script writer. But it's a team effort. Feel free to pick any member of Dr House's production staff. Or all of them. Except maybe the medical consultants, if there were any. I read the medical errors were pretty glaring.

Originally Posted by Zavie

You are taking this way out of the context. Saeko did not outright insult anyone like you said in the post.

I prefer to think of it as a magnification. Because as I hinted earlier, it wasn't immediately obvious to me either why I reacted negatively.

But the insulting side of it was just to show that being "frank and honest" justified nothing.

She was very careful with her words

"careful" is the last word I'd use.

and trying to take it as literally as she can. You are supposed to laugh it off.

I would have, if she'd explained it was a joke when it became clear the girls were taking her seriously.

Besides, what do you mean? We're supposed to take her words literally, or just forget them because it's a joke?

I won't bother replying to the rest because however you want to interpret, Saeko did get the fact right that they are on a fake realtionship and Masuzu's feelings for Eita are questionable.

Maybe it's the former math teacher in me, but how you get a result is as important to me as whether it's the good one or not.

To use another hyperbole: imagine a guy goes on shooting rampage and kills half a dozen people. Randomly.

Now imagine that, by coincidence, all those people were terrorists about to go on their own shooting spree, and by killing them he saved many more people.

Is he a hero? No, he's still a nutjob who shouldn't be allowed to have a weapon.

(And yes, I know what Saeko did is insignificant in comparison.)

She didn't say anything like Masuzu didn't love Eita at all or they were in the wrong for faking the relationship. It was just her intuition of a woman. If your behaviours make her intuition raises questions, then obviously you also have to watch out.

Yeah, and I wouldn't have minded if she'd taken Eita aside to tell him that. But five seconds into meeting her she decides Masuzu isn't Eita's girlfriend? And declares so in front of everyone?

All the what-ifs you said are just something you simulate inside your head to back up your arguement and it has no value whatsoever in this context, sorry. I'm not going to argue with your own scenario.

I'm saying she had no way of knowing it wasn't like that. That's what being careless is - taking useless risks based on insufficient information. And taking risks with other people's happiness, including the kid you're guardian of? Well, I think I've already said what I thought of that.

Whether she's irresponsible or inconsiderate, if your actions are obvious, someone is going to point it out eventually anyway, be it Saeko or someone else. You don't expect their little facade to last forever, do you?

No. But I don't like the way she attacked it, or her reasons for doing so.