[Eagles]

Originally Posted by Neku

..which is why I'm saying if Kira kills, Shinn would've been dead too.

While I can't discount the possibility that Shinn would die if Kira was out for blood, Shinn also wouldn't have fought the same way. Then theres also the question, would Kira fight the same but just aim at the cockpit? Or would he be truly out blood and fight like he did against Athrun in SEED?

I was asking for facts. When did Shinn defeat Kira again when he comes back with Strike Freedom? The context "Why won't Shinn be able to ..." doesn't matter because it never happened.

...I guess I answered my own question.

This whole debate stemmed from a comment of yours stating that Lacus wouldn't need Shinn, to which I'm pointing out that Shinn beat Freedom, and can do so again with Strike-Freedom given circumstances that aren't that hard to duplicate.

No. I was thanking him for pointing out that "the burden of proof".

ah, my mistake.

Don't contradict yourself just to refute my replies. Also, let me rephrase:
When Kira imposes the disadvantages to himself, according to you, it is a fair fight.

I said it was as fair as it gets, I never said it was a fair fight, that's all. When they fight again Kira still refuses to aim for cockpits, and so that again is not a fait fight by your books. However this trait is deeply ingrained in Kira, and it's unlikely we'd ever get a completely fair fight.

However, when Shinn chooses to impose the disadvantage to himself, it's not a fair fight.

The disadvantages imposed on Shinn were not by his choice. He can't chose to go into SEED mode at whim, he can't help what goes through his head when people he's killed come back to life.

By the way... if you want to enhance the point about "it's about as fair as you can get against Kira", it only proves that Shinn doesn't have the skills to defeat Kira if Kira was going all out; killing.

But then what if Shinn goes all out? And not in a berserker mode, but in a calm and calculating mode, one where he uses his head. If Kira can go to one extreme why can't Shinn go to the other?

But did Shinn manage to even touch Kira after they both got into SEED mode?

Did the opposite happen? But I see your point, Shinn can only fight SF to a stanstill.

Let's compare. In his days with Impulse, Shinn took out Auel, the .. crab mobile suit, or whatever you call that, some ships.. did I forget any?

Saved Athrun during Earth re-entry, wiped out an EA fleet singlehandedly (first SEED mode), took Auel, took out 30 windams, took down Freedom.

Now, Kira. His days with Strike. He took out Andrew, scarred Yzak, killed Nicol, fought to death with Athrun, fought single handedly against the dog mobile suits(I can't remember their names), reprogrammed Strike when he was fighting in desert, in the sea. I'm not sure if I've forgotten any. Been 2 or 3 years since I've watched them.

Andrew was in a modified grunt, but I guess we can call that skill. Yzak was blindsided, Nicol ran into that beamsaber (yea that took skill kira ), Kira fought the dog suits and had to be saved by reinforcements IIRC, reprogrammed the strike? I guess you can count that as skill, but then you'd have to count Shinn's tactics during the Freedom fight. The two battles that stand out as skilled are the dogs and fight to the death (lol CE) with Athrun.

Let's go back to Shinn again when he's in a pinch.
Shinn[Neku in disguise]: MY ARM'S BROKEN!! Minerva~! Force Silhouette!
*replaces parts*
Shinn[Neku in disguise]: Neh neh bu bu.
Shinn[Neku in disguise]: HOLY CRAP I RAN OUT OF BATTERY! Minerva!
*a beam shoots through*
Shinn[Neku in disguise]: HAHA. TIME TO GO AGAIN! COME ON YOU SUCKERS!
Shinn[Neku in disguise]: Hitting my cockpit now aren't ya! I can.. *split*

Now, let's flashback to Kira.
Kira[Neku in disguise]: *battery runs out* OMGWTF NOT AGAIN! HOLY SHIT. MY PHASESHUFTTTTT! *proceeds to fight with his two combat knives anyway* *and survives*

um, ok then.

Unfortunately, that's all I can remember about Kira. I only remember that Kira cannot recharge his battery, cannot replace parts as quickly as Impulse, has to replace parts with the help of SkyGrasper and cannot split.

So your point is that Impulse was better than Strike? Fair enough, but then all of CE's tech moved forward, not just one Gundams.

The fact states that he did not.
If he could, the series would show. But instead, they showed that Rey pointed it out to him. Why?

Who knows, maybe he was still distraught over Stella. He may not have figured it out by his battle with Freedom, but if he didn't eventually then Fukuda would have his character stupid beyond belief, *takes another look at the CE cast* maybe he already has.

..which is why I think of him of an barbarian. He only charges, I see no skill.

Of course it wasn't you. I never said it was you either. What's the fuss?

Yes he charges in, and proves to be more effective than Kira did. He wipes out his enemies, whereas Kira just fought them off. You can ignore Shinn's skill if you want, I often see Kira fanboys doing just that, but its not like Kira didn't do the same thing when he fought Athrun in SEED. And that was the best Kira's fought to date.

How hard is it when the Windams are hardly moving?
It's the same. It's just that Impulse has to move around, killing them one by one and Freedom can just finish them all down in one go.

The difference is that the Impulse could be taken out at any time, the Freedom is in a much more secure position and has to do much less work to achieve similar results. You can argue that any fight against grunts shouldn't be counted, but this goes against the way Destiny was directed. Shinn found himself in situations that required him to take large numbers of grunts rather than fight off a small number of named characters.