[Elestia]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

I'm sorry, I thought what you were actually doing was trying to understand the story. Y'know, in order to make sense of the plot and actually enjoy the anime, like you asked. Seems like you're more interested in "proving" how ridiculous the anime is and gaining license to just mindlessly bash it. If that is really your intention, then yeah, no thanks, that's the end of this conversation.

Bashing the show? I praised how wonderful the action scenes were in the other world. I liked the innovative use of CG was for the otherworld. The only thing I am unsatisfied with is the story and the real life characters. How do you come to the conclusion that I am "bashing the show", when the entire premise of BRS is *gasp* about Black Rock Shooter? When I said we should "agree to disagree" about the character's behavior in the very beginning you still decided to explain it to me. You posted a lengthy reply to a point that should have well left alone, because it was simply up to our own perspectives.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

You apparently forgot: you requested "someone explain the story to me", and that is why I began posting. I did not post to try to debate with you. I posted to give an explanation of the plot/characters which would allow you to follow the rest of the story (at least as much as the rest of us) if you wanted to. For example, I explained the fact that STR and Yuu switched places, an established idea which you were not previously aware of.

And I left that point alone after you cleared it up to me. I also pointed to you about Yuu's quote which you were not aware of either. So like it or not I am also enlightening you about some things from the show as well.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

If you're not willing to even accept the possibility that the plot is coherent and not ridiculous, and would rather get into a stupid debate trying to "prove" that it doesn't make sense, you might as well just drop the fucking show. If there are viewers who are having a hard time following the story, there are multiple posters here who do feel like they have figured things out and are willing to pass on their interpretations. Nobody, however, has the time to get in a pointless pissing match over "this story sucks, it is completely ridiculous".

Really? Cause you seem to have the time to humor this so called "pissing match" even when you stated we had nothing else to discuss.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

This is not about a fucking straw man. This is about logical conclusions:
- Saya wants to kill BRS
- Otherworld personas grow stronger when their human counterparts experience pain
- Therefore, Saya wants to maximize the pain of various people around her while avoiding causing pain to Mato, who's the counterpart of BRS.

Are you sure Mato is not in pain? I think she was feeling some pain when Yomi was making some hair bracelets and painting really lovely self-portraits of Mato. Or how bewildered Mato was when Saya placed her hands around her neck, as if about to choke her, and said "you should die for Yomi's sake". There was some slight tightening noises going on in that scene. Some gasps of surprise from Mato as well. Oh, and both Mato and Saya's entire body were shaking too. Then we have Saya release her grip and smile at her like nothing out of the ordinary happened. If it were in my case and not surprisingly what Mato did as well, she got the hell out of there as soon as she could. How do these actions give you the impression that Saya's goal is not at odds with her actions because it seems pretty apparent that Mato herself didn't think Saya was just "thinking about it".

Do you not see the contradictions in your logic with these events?

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

According to this obvious logical structure (if you don't want to accept it, just drop the fucking show):
- the reason Saya targeted Kohata was not to give Mato pain, it was just convenient
- BRS killing Kohata's persona before Saya could make it strong enough to fight BRS would be completely pointless for Saya's goals, therefore Saya did not send Kohata against her.

I'm sorry, but that does not follow. Saya has the same knowledge about the other world as Yuu, so she would know how the alter-egos would react to their host's grief. Saya would know that Kohata's problem would eventually spill over to Mato, (again keeping tabs on her through those "counseling sessions"). Once Mato became concerned, it wouldn't take long before BRS would start appearing soon after. In this case, their relationship is that they were in the same basketball club. Pretty hard to miss for someone you are keeping an eye out on. Saying that Saya did not know about it means Kohata's alter ego was raised to be cut down almost immediately by BRS, which as you said does not make sense. Yet, that is exactly what Saya did, hence why her actions do not make sense. Why would Saya go through all the trouble of raising Kohata if she should very well know that BRS would come after her in the very near future due to Mato's close relationship with Kohata?

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

I've been ignoring the aforementioned picture because that picture is retarded. I and other posters have already stated numerous times that Saya was not "pretend-killing" Mato, she was (thinking about) [I]actually killing Mato[/I]. You can argue that it was a dumb/thoughtless move from Saya because it freaked Mato out and ruined their relationship (however, still not anywhere near enough to cause the awakening of IBRS). However, the reason why Saya did it has been blatantly revealed to be because killing Mato would have achieved Saya's primary objective, i.e. getting rid of BRS. Thus, it makes sense for Saya's character, and the show is internally consistent. If you don't want to accept this explanation, drop the fucking show.

I'm starting to wonder if that scene has gotten you so far into denial you can't tell difference between a hostile threat and simply "thinking about it".

But do tell me something, at what point does putting your hands on your students in a fashion to strangle someone does it constitute simply "thinking about it"? If I take a knife and bring it dangerously close to someone's jugular does that still count as simply "thinking about it". If I said "you really should die" to the person does it not give intent? If make some horizontal motions around his neck, does it not make the man sweat in terror? Would the person think it was just simply harmless fun and nothing to worry about? How about when the knife is simply only a few centimeters from piercing their own throat? Would the person in question take that action as a threat or attempt on his life, giving that he is not a psychic?

Mato is a middle school girl who is taking on personal problems way beyond her age. When you look at a person's mental health you look at it holistically. Meaning, everything bad things that happens to a person builds up stress if not released, else it just builds up. If you build enough pressure anyone will snap eventually. So when I see Mato having problems with Kagari, Yomi, Yuu, and to some degree Kohata they all add up. Considering these are not your ordinary problems the magnitude is likely to be much larger than any mundane problems we face everyday. However, none have those issues have been truly resolved and continue to be a problem weighing on Mato's mind. She stated herself that simply ignoring the problem or forgetting it will come to bite you back in the ass sooner or later. I really do applaud Mato for handling these circumstances so well, but there is a limit. A limit Saya does not want to push. Again, my own view. Probably won't agree with me. Fine. I won't say anything else.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

If you're not naive enough to think that a single choke scene is enough to awaken IBRS, then why are you trying to complain that Saya's character does not make sense or is not consistent. Saya has no control over what happens with Yuu (Mato's realization was completely unpredictable). Saya also has to target Yomi because she is one of the few people who have a developed otherworld persona. Thus, the way that Saya dealt with the various stresses on Mato all make sense and are internally consistent. In particular, because Saya was hoping/expecting for DM/Yomi to defeat BRS/Mato, there was no reason for Saya to assume that her own actions would lead to the awakening of IBRS (which they didn't). Instead, the trigger for IBRS appearing was clearly a result of the extreme and unpredictable actions of STR/real-world Yuu.

Because Saya is keeping tabs on Mato's progression throughout the entire series? She would need to gauge Mato's overall mental health from various stress points she is currently enduring. When I said I am not naive enough to think one event would cause Mato to degrade seriously I meant it. However, I also continued on the point that it is not just "one" event that is causing Mato harm, but several high stress areas in her life. You just stated that Saya intentions are not to give Mato pain or else IBRS would wake. Would Saya, the school counselor, really be so silly not take into account all the stress Mato has been building up and not just her own? But again, you believe that there is zero chance this will cause Mato enough pain to awaken BRS so it makes sense to you and I say there is a cumulative risk that make Saya's actions seem reckless and stupid.

I felt that the scene where Mato was trying to remember Yuu would have dealt an large mental blow if she wasn't there. Since this happened at the episode five, the toll on Mato's mind must have been rather significant. Nothing like having one's hope turn into despair. Again, my take on the scene.

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

If you have any further problems, (try to) figure them out yourself. This is a more than reasonable basis to eventually reach the conclusion of "I have made sense of this story". If you have no interest in ever coming to the conclusion that "BRS makes sense" in the first place, drop the fucking show.

Yeah, I've started to give up hopes of trying to make sense of the story. Really, there is too many unstable girls, melodrama, and hard to swallow developments in the past six episodes. But that doesn't mean its enough to offset the awesome action scenes in the other world. So I'll continue to keep watching it just for that then.