[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Hold on, hold on, I will readily agree that Touma with his pre-punch speeches has more charisma that most characters I've seen in recent anime, but "I have clone sisters running around getting killed for experiments" isn't deep? Just what are your standards for deep?

Relatively speaking, I would say. But as Syn noted, outside of it she seemed to just be there for her tsundere antics, though this might just be JC staff thing, although I heard they were faithful. Then again, most of my feelings of Mikoto not being able to capture the lead was just from that spinoff they tried.

Spoiler:

At this point I'll just point out that prior to Vivio, Nanoha never had an internal conflict. Or any character growth. At all. Yet that didn't stop her from being the titular character or a main character for two seasons.

Then again, Nanoha has always been a series more about the characters not named Nanoha. S1 was more Fate's story, A's was more Hayate's story, the first cour of StrikerS more Subaru's story. It's not until the second half or StrikerS that Nanoha finally gets a plot to herself that allows her to actually grow.

It's true. For whatever reason, Nanoha doesn't focus on herself in her own series. However, her character gets down to the very core of this thread.

The reason Nanoha's character works, and what gives it the extra punch needed to fill an action girl as well as an action lead is because the plot was pushed through her decision and will. She didn't just react to the plot; she took the initiative. We have someone that approached the issue with enthusiasm, not delving into "Oh, I want to be normal". That's what sets her apart from a number of protagonists.

Still you might scoff. Well, "Bleh, there's tons of protagonists that strive to be the best and be more then they are. Goku, etc." Well, that's why Nanoha starts to work in the success category for action girls. She's not aiming to get stronger or be the best just for the sake of being the best or saving people just because that's something to do. Her goals are far more specific from that. She wants to help people. But helping people is too broad still, and that is why Fate helped make season 1 work, and also later the Wolkies. They made this desire and goal more concrete. Eventually this grows into something else-- she doesn't end up just going around saving people-- she makes a career out of it, and ultimately she teaches other people who want to do it the same thing. As we went along, these goals of her became more clear as she grew up. And that's really something that puts this long running series over quite a few others.

And that, is what I feel, defines a character with their own existence and will beyond just being a main character. It's just like the Kuroyukihime example I used above.

It also passes the theme, that anyone, regardless of gender or age can push themselves. It helps a character to have a recurring theme around them.

If the writers don't know what to do with a character who specializes in history and known for being a good teacher in a manga that throws around lots of history and has a lot of training then I am beginning to question their skills as writers.

Lol, I agree wholeheartedly. I do not like his handling at all.

The problem with Yuno is that he just wasn't given any depth to take advantage of those traits he has. You can't define a character merely through aspects; only through in-depth diving can you create a true character. I think we should all be happy that Hayate and co resided in A's and got their development in asap since aside from Yuno, that group seems to be very disliked by the writers. :S Well, at least the first two seasons had a few cool moments. Then...