[Sol Falling]

Alright then, so a short update I guess on my debate with Triple R over Homura which continued over PM. I was probably a bit unclear in communicating what I really meant to say about Homura, so Triple R offered me the generous opportunity to update my position.

This is an excerpt from my most recent PM...of course, this post only reflects my side of the story.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I may have come off too strongly on our more public debate over Homura's character, but I have to say that much of Homura's charm to me is my interpretation of...

Homura loves the selfless, sacrificial Madoka (in large part because she's so admirably selfless and sacrificial) but it's these very same elements of Madoka's character that Homura loves that Homura has to try to drive out of Madoka in order to save Madoka.

I just love the almost paradoxical irony of that.

I don't actually disagree with this, so perhaps some further clarification is needed...

Your interpretation, while understandable if we assume that all the characters are being completely honest with others and themselves (I don't assume that), takes away this charm for me.

Also, I have to admit that it just seemed kind of obvious to me that Homura couldn't have TRULY meant the harsher philosophies she expressed to Madoka or she never would have loved Madoka to begin with.

I think that Homura very genuinely believes the things she's said about those optimistic traits being death for a Mahou Shoujo. And I think, being a mahou shoujo, Homura has fully embraced that coldness and cynicism herself. The problem is that Homura fell in love with Madoka as a human, and Homura isn't human any longer. That's why, the ultimate endpoint Homura was aiming for was one in which she was no longer involved in Madoka's life.

I don't really mean to undermine the "yuri" aspect of the series, lol. Basically, it's true that it's actually Homura's still human core, deep down, which drives her to want to protect Madoka, or even have her feelings noticed by her. However, I think that Homura was very serious about not only separating Madoka from the Mahou Shoujo world, but also from herself--because, indeed, she sees being a Mahou Shoujo as such a curse that she feels she has no other choice.

One area where I really do have to strongly disagree with you Sol, and even wonder how you could undermine the fun yuri of it all ( ) is in arguing that Homura is only doing this to "get out" of the time loop, as though she was Bill Murray's character in Groundhog Day.

I much prefer to view Homura as being like Okabe in Steins;Gate - Passionately caring about the girl he wants to save (be it Mayuri or Kurisu... or Madoka ) and willing to sacrifice so much for her and her well-being.

I actually don't disagree at all about the depth of Homura's passion for Madoka. I think that's very much there. Basically, though, I just think that all of Homura's surface frustration/anger with Madoka's naivete, and Sayaka's too in a couple scenes, is also true and that Homura genuinely wants to discourage those optimistic/self-sacrificial tendencies when it comes to being a mahou shoujo. It's probably not that Homura hates self-sacrifice, it's just that Homura hates self-sacrifice in combination with anything as potentially life-ruining as the Puella Magi system.