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Old 2010-06-09, 23:07   Link #2047
Endscape
The Mage of Four Hearts
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 33
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Gil is no god. And I meant an early warning much similar to the one the Emiya household has. It warns everyone when somone unfriendly approaches the house. With that Zouken has plenty of time to escape or swithc to a different worm. We're speaking about the strongest chessmaster of the whole story here. Also UBW only mentioned squishing worms, nothing else. It could mean Gil tramples on the worms remained in the Matou house. It's a quite huge jump to claim Gilgamesh killed Zouken, and to add he killed Zouken for real. It's like when you decide what happens in the story for yourself after reading nothing just the book's cover. It may be accurate but most probably wrong.
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Where do you get that from? All the game shows is Gil going into the room and trodding on a few worms.
True, we never see him killing Zouken, however Shinji brought him down there, and I doubt it was for sightseeing, hell why else would he bring him down there except to kill him?

As for Zouken detecting him, I'm not quite sure if Gil can go spirit form or not ( the scene in Fate where he fights Saber indicates he can, as well as the fact that he disappears when killed like other Servants, but if he went in there in spirit form, would Zouken notice?

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I disagree entirely. Being in a relationship allows them to sort out their problems.
And I disagree with that. They should sort out their problems before going into a relationship. In a relationship like that, both sides end up hurting each other.

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The same applies to Sakura and Shirou. They are together because they like and trust each other. It's just that, for both of them, the happiness of the other is what matters to them. With Shirou and Rin, Shirou will want to make Rin happy, and won't care about himself, which isn't a healthy relationship. Rin will simply take advantage of him. Perhaps not intentionally, but it will end up happening. Plus, her constant Tsundereing will turn his life into a living nightmare....
I agree on the love and trust, but as I said they're too dependent on each other. Relationships like that never end well.

I disagree totally with your views on Shirou and Rin. They complement each other, since both can help the other in their path through life, but stopping the other when they go to far, like Shirou and his idealism and Rin in her responsibilities as a magus. However, unlike Shirou and Sakura, they aren't utterly dependent on each other and can walk on their own. And Shirou likes Rin's tsundereing, because it makes his life exciting. Sakura certainly can't say the same...

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How does the fact that they can't live without each other make their relationship unhealthy? Besides, Sakura is not normal, and nor should she be expected to be after what Zouken put her through. She needs someone like Shirou to support her (Rin is totally useless in that respect, because she lacks the emotional intelligence to handle Sakura in that state)
What?

Please read what you just wrote. Two people who cannot live without the other is healthy to you? That's normally called mental instability. They take people to mental hospitals for that. Yes, Sakura isn't normal, and someone like Shirou is needed to help her, but not necessarily in a romantic sense. They'd be better off waiting for them to go through their problems first.

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Yes, but they also don't kill innocent people in cold blood. Also, there are plenty of cases of superheroes putting their loved ones first. In fact, virtually every superhero is forced to do that at least once. It's just that there are rarely the explicit consequences that we see in HF.
And they also don't let hundreds of innocent people die for one person's sake.


And please point out a case where a superhero had the clear choice between the life of a loved one and the lives of hundreds of people, please?

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Well, I dislike the fact that Fate and UBW tell us nothing about Sakura's situation, and force us to guess (unlike HF, which makes Saber's situation clear enough...). Anyway, I'm not complaining about Saber fans saying "I don't like the HF ending because Saber dies" (because I simply can't like the UBW endings after playing HF), I'm complaining about Saber fans who think that Saber absolutely must be the centre of attention and main love interest in all routes, and thus can't comprehend that, in HF, she's just there to drive the plot along.
I guess I can see your point there? Most of those Saber fans are angry that Nasu killed her off because Shirou more than likely wouldn't have fallen for Sakura or have any problems with Archer's arm if she were there.

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Where do you get that idea from? HA is a mish-mash of all three routes, and Shirou's feelings for the girls (and thus, presumably, opinions about his ideals) come from all three. It's certainly not set post-UBW, at least not entirely.
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It seems you didn't read much about HA. Hollow Ataraxia happens nowhere. It's a dream world and all of it happens in a parallel universe only loosely related to the other routes. Anyways if it has relation with anything then with HF with all those Dark Sakura and Dark Saber gags. And how it proves anything? I won't spoil you but HA tells nothing about Shirou actually.
I'm fairly well acquainted with HA, thank you very much. it's you two who don't seem to know much.

Spoiler for Hollow Ataraxia:
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