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One thing I can't help but observe in this debate is that Heracles is probably helped out by the fact that Ilya is clearly a far superior master than Kariya. That also would help boost his stats to a degree, as I wonder how good F/Z Berserker's stats are with a master like Kariya. Remember that Saber was pretty bleh with Shirou as a master, and then was god-like with Rin as one.
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