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Elbowlick · 2004-12-17, 10:36

This thread needs more Nana!

More: http://manga.clone-army.org/nana.php

Anyway, IceHawk, I'd disagree that she killed 'innocent' people. After all, those special forces and doctors were all conducting inhuman experiments on small children, killing off babies (well, at least Kurama did, but the other doctors certainly supported it), and generally did not place a very high value on human (or diclonius) life.

When I look at Elfen Lied, I don't see the show even asking you to forgive Lucy. It's not interested in forgiveness. Mind you, Kouta and Lucy might be interested in forgiveness and forgiving, but the message of the show certainly isn't that. Rather, Elfen Lied is about rebalancing everyone's Karma -- Karmic debts are repaid, and moral accounts are settled. You really only need to look at Nana, Mariko, and Kurama's end to see that. Heck, you even see that in the bit-characters like Mariko's caretaker: although she considers herself Mariko's mom, she is repaid for imprisoning Mariko with death, and Mariko is repaid for killing her caretaker by losing an arm, and being turned into a weapon to capture Lucy. (Aside: And note that Kuruma and Mariko only get to reconcile at the cost of their lives, at the end).

When it comes to Lucy, you can see the same kind of story playing out along the entire series. At the beginning she's a smart girl who believes in treating people humanely, becomes dirtied after deciding that humans are worthless and kills a bunch of people, and since she doesn't end up dying in the end, though, I'd say she end up being *just short* of breaking even... but that suits Lucy well. Living with the weight of her past deeds, and with Kouta's imouto's death hanging over her head, it's hard to say that it isn't a fitting end. She's certainly not being forgiven for anything; Lucy knows she can't be forgiven. And Kouta doesn't forgive her. But what *does* happen, is that her Karmic balance sheet gets a little closer to evening out. She'll neve balance it out, but that's the weight she has to bear.

So, in short, in my view, Lucy's story (and the show in general) is about karmic rebalancing, not forgiveness, law, justice, or anything like that. To look for those kinds of messages is to miss the point of the show.

------

You can see this kind of thing happening in shows like Kimi Ga Nozoumu Eien, as well. People are thrown into a strange circumstance, they're stained with great misdeeds, and spend the entire series stuggling and suffering while trying to balance things out. No one is innocent, but it's hard to blame any one of them for their actions. It's rather like watching a train accident happen in slow motion, over 14 episodes. It makes for great drama, but when people call it a romance show, again, I think they rather miss the point, too... it's a show about the settling of accounts, debts, and terrible circumstances -- Anything about 'forgiveness' only serves as a small weight to help balance the karma sheet; it's not an end within itself.

2004-12-17, 10:36	Link #1077
Elbowlick Sakura Fan Join Date: Oct 2004	This thread needs more Nana! More: http://manga.clone-army.org/nana.php Anyway, IceHawk, I'd disagree that she killed 'innocent' people. After all, those special forces and doctors were all conducting inhuman experiments on small children, killing off babies (well, at least Kurama did, but the other doctors certainly supported it), and generally did not place a very high value on human (or diclonius) life. When I look at Elfen Lied, I don't see the show even asking you to forgive Lucy. It's not interested in forgiveness. Mind you, Kouta and Lucy might be interested in forgiveness and forgiving, but the message of the show certainly isn't that. Rather, Elfen Lied is about rebalancing everyone's Karma -- Karmic debts are repaid, and moral accounts are settled. You really only need to look at Nana, Mariko, and Kurama's end to see that. Heck, you even see that in the bit-characters like Mariko's caretaker: although she considers herself Mariko's mom, she is repaid for imprisoning Mariko with death, and Mariko is repaid for killing her caretaker by losing an arm, and being turned into a weapon to capture Lucy. (Aside: And note that Kuruma and Mariko only get to reconcile at the cost of their lives, at the end). When it comes to Lucy, you can see the same kind of story playing out along the entire series. At the beginning she's a smart girl who believes in treating people humanely, becomes dirtied after deciding that humans are worthless and kills a bunch of people, and since she doesn't end up dying in the end, though, I'd say she end up being just short of breaking even... but that suits Lucy well. Living with the weight of her past deeds, and with Kouta's imouto's death hanging over her head, it's hard to say that it isn't a fitting end. She's certainly not being forgiven for anything; Lucy knows she can't be forgiven. And Kouta doesn't forgive her. But what does happen, is that her Karmic balance sheet gets a little closer to evening out. She'll neve balance it out, but that's the weight she has to bear. So, in short, in my view, Lucy's story (and the show in general) is about karmic rebalancing, not forgiveness, law, justice, or anything like that. To look for those kinds of messages is to miss the point of the show. ------ You can see this kind of thing happening in shows like Kimi Ga Nozoumu Eien, as well. People are thrown into a strange circumstance, they're stained with great misdeeds, and spend the entire series stuggling and suffering while trying to balance things out. No one is innocent, but it's hard to blame any one of them for their actions. It's rather like watching a train accident happen in slow motion, over 14 episodes. It makes for great drama, but when people call it a romance show, again, I think they rather miss the point, too... it's a show about the settling of accounts, debts, and terrible circumstances -- Anything about 'forgiveness' only serves as a small weight to help balance the karma sheet; it's not an end within itself.