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Originally Posted by [HearT]
That part when Kikaijima rips out her fingernails is definitely one of the most badass moments in this series so far, I can't imagine many people to willingly do that
Kikaijima's officially the most badass character at this point
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I really like this battle of Kikaijima's (manga and anime) because it really shows Kikaijima fighting in her own way. Although they are normally in the background, Kikaijima's speech and feelings about Medaka being a "normal" girl are compelling and powerful. More importantly, you can really sense Kikaijima stretching her limits and overcoming a huge struggle in accomplishing her win against Yukuhashi. In short, yup, Kikaijima is badass because she shows much more strength (of character) than you would expect.
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh
Uh... Counter argument: it's one thing to wish someone would change, or even to convince them to change through example or conversation. It's another to brainwash them while they're unconscious. WTH is right about the latter?
Unzen had a point. Oudou doesn't, he just has a giant ego and a few desires.
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Haha. Well, as far as brainwashing people not necessarily being the right thing to do, even Oudou admitted that. The main point Oudou and Yukuhashi made was regarding Medaka "forcing" her beliefs or opinions onto others. The examples brought up were things such as the delinquents originally occupying the kendo hall, and the swimming club during the club funds competition.
In the kendo hall example, Medaka used her "condescending interpretations of the fundamental goodness of human beings" to force the kendo hall occupiers to stop being delinquents, practice kendo and reform. In the club funds example, Medaka forced her opinion that 'it is wrong to endanger your own life for money' onto the swimming team, interfering with their activities. Although in either case Medaka's intentions were noble and the subjects eventually reformed themselves or even benefited, Oudou's argument was that 'despite being correct, that doesn't give you the right to force/control what others do'.
Although not technically brainwashing others, by assailing others through the force of her persistence, abilities, and idealism, the argument was that Medaka was no less forceful in controlling what others do. If Hitoyoshi's only justification on those grounds was that Medaka was righteous/"correct" in doing so, it would be hypocritical of him to oppose Oudou's "correct" reformation of the forceful/self-righteous aspects of Medaka's personality (if not the aspect of 'shaping Medaka into the woman of his desires,' lol).
More to the point, if Medaka was truly "always correct; even
too correct", then decisions such as she made to trust Naze and inject herself with her memory/abnormality-wiping fluid, therefore getting herself captured, would be proven righteous/justified. In such a case, there would be no reason for Zenkichi to interfere personally. Under such premises, there should be no reason for him to protest Miyakonojou's actions either.
However, the issue at hand is not really Medaka's personality or brainwashing, anyway. The real issue is that Miyakanojou, via supporting the Flask Plan, intends to enable experimentation on students. Although you could say as much as you like about Medaka exerting an unjustified influence on those around her, fundamentally at least she would never endanger others' lives.