[Estavali]

My apologies for contributing to what may be unneccessary complications. I think I can grasp your reasoning now somewhat and I agree on many of the points you have raised. Nonetheless I think it is best that I clarify my PoV as well.

1) Despite the difference in atmosphere, Ga-Rei Zero is written with the manga as a basis and as such it is not impossible to follow on from there. A Ga-Rei anime, following Zero's lead, would be one where the manga story is updated with the background provided by Zero, where the excessive lulz elements (which imho is the major factor contributing to the manga's lower status compared to Zero) are weeded out to streamline and intensify the tension, etc. In short, Ga-Rei's story (modified), Zero's style.

2) I accept that Yomi should be no less than a major character. It's just I feel the main focus of a Ga-Rei anime should be at least on Kagura, Yomi and Kensuke, without leaving out any one of them. It's true that Yomi exerts a strong influence in Kagura's life; however Ga-Rei is essentially told through Kagura and Kensuke, whose actions influences each other (though admittably Kensuke may have a weaker influence compared to Yomi's, especially in the final arcs) and as such neither should be undermined.

Now, onwards to the unenviable task of dissecting the cake...

Spoiler for Mindless rambling:

Originally Posted by careph

1) My conclusions are the results of the premises outlined in my post, at least one of which still stands; they are not presuppositions. I do not think that my capacity to ratiocinate is in any way influenced by my sympathy for Yomi. While I greatly adore her character, my posts in the past few years have also shown me to be one of her most verbal critics.
2) My negation of your argument is not as strong as you interpret it to be. I merely claimed that Yomi as a side character doesn’t work. I imply nothing beyond that.
3) More generally, I regard a synthesis of the anime and the manga in the form of an adaptation as impossible (largely for pragmatic – read commercial – reasons) See my above post for further info.

My apologies if I have misread you. It's just that I can't understand why you continued to proclaim the impossibility of a Ga-Rei anime even with the idea of adapting the manga to work with Zero's story and atmosphere. "Is this really such an out-of-the-world idea?" "If Ga-Rei can inspire Ga-rei Zero despite their differences, why can't animators work with the original to bring the gold out from the mud?"

I also misunderstood your position about Yomi's role. To me, you seemed to say that only Yomi is necessary to support Kagura throughout the story; the others don't matter. And that despite the introduction of Kensuke as the new main character, the focus should still be on Yomi and Kagura, defeating the purpose of putting him there in the first place.

If Kagura is the protagonist of the manga (I think we both agree to this), and both Kensuke and Yomi are equally important to her (what you just said), then how can you place one in her immediate proximity and condemn the other to periphery? Would Kagura not logically want both close to her, and would they not as a result both be lead characters?

Agreed.

Don’t underestimate Kagura. When her father on his deathbed suggested a life of Buddhistic nihilism to her, she embraced her feelings, even though she knew it meant a lot of anguish, pain and suffering. Maybe she had no choice in that matter; maybe her sensitive, emotional character dictated her path. Although for some time in denial, she eventually understood Yomi – not on a rational, but on a purely preverbal, intuitive, emotional level. It is my belief that Kagura’s love, as inspired to a large degree by Yomi, was what kept her from breaking down altogether and going insane after the horrible events of GRZ. But she loved Yomi as a human at that point, not as an idol.

Agreed. Though I still do wonder if her "emotional buffer" is largely built on the ideal Yomi rather than the real person with both her beautiful and ugly sides now apparent to Kagura.

You are arguing counterfactually. The anime is a reality, not a possibility. If you stand by what you said that …

What I mean to say is that I strongly suspect that Zero and Yomi's popularity had led (maybe even forced) Segawa to reintroduce Yomi in the final arcs and with a central role to the second half of the story. Isn't it curious that he killed Yomi off only to ressurect her and conveniently bind her to a person that looks absolutely like her?

… the above paragraph makes no sense. Unless you factor Kagura’s profound relationship with Yomi into the anime, you cannot synthesize the two media.

I do wish you have included the entire paragraph, or at least the sentence in full here:

Originally Posted by Estavali

Please note that I understand that it is impossible to make a Ga-Rei anime without taking Zero and its influence into consideration, not without serious tweaks to parts of the story.

The "serious tweaks to parts of the story" would of course factor in "Kagura’s profound relationship with Yomi", and more where needed.

You may have personal reasons for interpreting the story that way. But considering the anime as a prequel to and leading into the manga, it is impossible to uphold your viewpoint. And I believe that synthesis was your goal, correct me if I’m wrong.

I don't deny that I wrote that paragraph (or rather the whole of my previous post ) with a certain amount of irritation

However I don't understand why my viewpoint of setting Ga-Rei as Kagura and Kensuke's story can't hold. Or did you mean to say that a Ga-Rei anime would not be plausible if Yomi's weight on its story is severely reduced? If so, I agree with this point. And yes, synthesis is my goal from my first post to this.

Also, and I cannot help getting a little upset when I read that, …

People do not need to move on from whom they love. It does not show maturity, just a certain shallowness of character or maybe self-deception. Even under less dramatic circumstances, grief for a beloved sibling is often something that will both burden and strengthen, but in any case accompany the bereaved throughout the rest of their lives. Now imagine all important figures in a young person’s life rolled into one, dying under utterly traumatizing circumstances, worse: being killed by said person. However, that’s not the end of the nightmare: it’s just the beginning. There’s a large gap between the end of the anime and the beginning of the manga, and it’s difficult to imagine how Kagura would have managed to survive one of the darkest periods of her life if she hadn’t embraced both her grief and her love for Yomi - the only things Kagura had left at that time. From this point of view, Kagura’s continuing connection with Yomi was what made the manga possible in the first place. Had she met Kensuke in a state of embitterment and hatred toward an unjust world, I doubt the story would have gone anywhere. Call me naïve, but I believe people should embrace what is dear to them, not get over it.
In any case, it doesn’t matter what you or I think Kagura should do or needs to do. Considering her character, she would never move on in any case. This brings me back to the second conclusion of my first point in the previous post. I see that it still stands.

Hmmm, I see.

Yomi doesn’t have to replace them, why should she have to? Wasn’t it you who said that …

… is having both Yomi and Kensuke at Kagura’s side asking for too much? Rather, could it be any other way without mutilating Kagura’s character?

In regards to this and the other paragraph that you have quoted, I was under the understanding that you were advocating that Yomi should have a monopoly over Kagura, instead of being one of the many supporting her. I see I probably have misunderstood.

What you say is doubtlessly correct, but if you retain Yomi’s combat superiority over Kensuke, she will always dominate in battles, and as long as she does so, she will be a central part of the action-oriented manga. This has nothing to do with my affection, it’s just logic.

Alas, the difference in strength is a sticky issue.

I take it you meant “to not see all the possibilities”. So far, I’ve only seen one rush at me, namely …

This sounds interesting, but would make Yomi even more central that she already is. All the conflicts leading up to her resurrection would just be periods of preparation, Kagura’s attempts to come to terms with herself before the great climax. In short: minor happenings leading up the major event, with the story coming full circle when resolving the conflict with Yomi; the relationship of the fated sisters as the alpha and the omega of Ga-Rei. I thought that’s precisely what you wanted to avoid?

What I wish not to see is Yomi hogging the limelight, overshadowing both Kensuke (fine...) and Kagura (bad idea). Like what we probably both agree on, Ga-Rei is Kagura's story and I'm uneasy with the thought of having Yomi snatch that role from her. That Kagura's portrayal in Zero wasn't really well-liked doesn't help too.

I wrote the suggestion with the idea of condensing Yomi's role to the final arc, as I felt that there's no point introducing her physically twice (especially since her first coming was rather a rather one-dimensional character) and she would have a stronger impact if her comings restricted to just once, in the final stage.

However, after going back to flip through the first arc, I'm quite inclined to give up on that idea. A better alternative may be to include and highlight her inner conflict, her love for Kagura struggling with the amplified jealousy of her.

Thank you for reading =w=