[Utsukushii Hono'o]

I am really bored and it's gonna be a long night because it's turkey day

@Rain...it might as well be anti fan club

@ Blue Skies
She is a stalker.... It's funny how a number of fans are under the impression Orihime is a stalker. Do you think that could be because, it might have some truth to it? On second thought answer on my profile or pm me if you feel the need. Then again is "Orihime: Stalker or Not?" relevant to the discussion of Orihime hate? I dunno...

Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger

Wow, you call her a love-crazed stalker who is delusional about love and stuff but you conveniently make an exception for this quote?(this isnt to Eurys btw)

......interesting -_-

The quote itself is the most important thing. The Mangaka had the Ichiban Ichigo...stalker say it, to cement the meaning behind it.

(..thats why she posted it)

For the record I have never thought Orihime was delusional. She actually fully understands the situation. I have thought some of the fans were delusional( Not all, just some)

Besides...Orihime is very good at empathizing. ...

Originally Posted by Ichigo&Rukia

She understands Ichigo perfectly. It's just that she does not affect him the way Rukia does. She is not delusional about love IMO.
Nobody has double standarts here.

Continued from cloak's answer...

This is where I disagree. Orihime does not understand Ichigo at all. It has been shown. Once when she cried over her inability to do what Rukia did. She could not make Ichigo feel better because she did not know how. The second time during the the don't die speech. Unlike Rukia's "Man in my heart speech" It did not make him feel good. It did motivate him but it wasn't encouragement in fact it was the exact opposite.

If you would backtrack a bit.. Remember that Shinji said that Ichigo's hollow would destroy everything even his friends. Shinji didn't mean that Ichigo going Berserker was the only way. The inability to master his hollow, the fear of that hollow almost cost the lives of 3 friends. Here he is in HM trying to rescue a friend that he failed to protect once, and also vowed to protect because of said failure. Here he is in a fight (never mind his reasons for wanting to fight GJ) one that he cannot afford to lose. If he does Orihime and all his friends lives are risk. When Orihime said "You don't have to win...Just don't die" He was reminded again. He was reminded of everything I just said. So he smiled a bittersweet smile and said "I am sorry but I can't let you hurt me". Although he strengthened his resolve, Orihime's plea didn't make him feel good. Instead reminded him of his failures.

This is due to her inability to fully, truly understand Ichigo.

See a lot of people get the things that Orihime can see clearly. Confused with her ability to empathize with Ichigo. (Ishida as well. It's not just Ichigo)

For instance...The time Kagato mentions. Pre-SS, Orihime followed Ichigo. In her conversation she supposedly understood him so well she convinced him to go.
However that was not the case at all. Let me ask you...Do you really believe that Ichigo thought anything along that vein? Do you really believe he was thinking anything like she'd assumed? Hell no! He's not such an airhead. If you will recall the thing that got his attention was "...When your dead"

Out of all the things Orihime said that is what hit home. It was right then Ichigo decided that he didn't have to worry about if he was doing the right thing by going

If Rukia was dead then it didn't matter. He was going to go anyway he just wondered if he was doing the right thing by going. That was not a case of Orihime understanding Ichigo (stalking again, yes)

Before I am bombarded with "Empathy and Understanding is the same thing"
Let me assure you, no it is not. It's true the word "Understand" is in the definition of empathy but I don't mean in that context.
savinspace

Spoiler for Empathy...:

...is the capacity to recognize or understand another's state of mind or emotion. It is often characterized as the ability to "put oneself into another's shoes", or to in some way experience the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself.
It is important to note that empathy does not necessarily imply compassion. Empathy can be 'used' for compassionate or cruel behavior.


characterized by combinations of beliefs and desires, then grasping these beliefs and desires will be more essential to empathy.

This is the part that applies to Orihime, when it comes to Ichigo

Furthermore, a distinction should be made between deliberately imagining being another person, or being in their situation, and simply recognizing their emotion. The ability to imagine oneself as another person is a sophisticated imaginative process. However the basic capacity to recognize emotions is probably innate and may be achieved unconsciously.

Now...

Spoiler for Savin Space: Understanding ...:

(also called intellection) is a psychological process related to an abstract or physical object, such as, person, situation, or message whereby one is able to think about it and use concepts to deal adequately with that object.
An understanding is the limit of a conceptualization. To understand something is to have conceptualized it to a given measure.

1. One understands the weather if one is able to predict and to give an explanation of some of its features, etc.
2. A psychiatrist understands another person's anxieties if he/she knows that person's anxieties, their causes, and can give useful advice on how to cope with the anxiety.<--Applies to Rukia and not Orihime since it's shown she cannot do that.
3. A person understands a command if he/she knows who gave it, what is expected by the issuer, and whether the command is legitimate, and whether one understands the speaker (see 4).
4. One understands a reasoning, an argument, or a language if one can consciously reproduce the information content conveyed by the message.
5. One understands a mathematical concept if one can solve problems using it, especially problems that are not similar to what one has seen before.


It is difficult to define understanding. If we use the term concept as above, the question then arises as to what is a concept? Is it an abstract thing? Is it a brain pattern or a rule? Whatever definition is proposed, we can still ask how it is that we understand the thing that is featured in the definition: we can never satisfactorily define a concept, still less use it to explain understanding.

, she/he makes him/herself receptive to obtain and retain information from it, thereby allowing for understanding to occur. [1] It may be more convenient to use an operational or behavioural definition, that is, to can say that somebody who reacts appropriately to X understands X. For example, one understands Swahili if one correctly obeys commands given in that language. This approach, however, may not provide an adequate definition.
This...
A computer can easily be programmed to react appropriately to commands, but there is a disagreement as to whether or not the computer understands the language...is what applies to Orihime

Just because she can easily recognize his emotions when it comes to his feelings about Rukia. Does not mean it is because she understands Ichigo. It's been shown that she does not. Which is why she is so insecure and was jealous of Rukia. Rukia managed to do what she could not in five minutes with a kick, tearing down Ichigo's self esteem and then building it back up with a speech. This was possible because Rukia understands Ichigo and Orihime does not.

She is perceptive (and a stalker) so she can easily recognize the bond between the two. She just can't affect him the same way, because she lacks a total understanding of Ichigo.

Originally Posted by kagato3

Of course she is a stalker i mean she forced her way into his class room. ....Wait what do you mean that was someone else. Or how about the time she broke into his house to live in his closet. .... What that was someone else as well? I know there was that time she followed him to his mother's grave after he told her to leave him alone. ...Are you sure that wasn't her? Ok let me go back and check again.
Lets see able to tell when he was near played for laughs claiming she could smell him from 2 stroies up that could be something but given that just about everyone is able to do that now by feeling each others powers it may just be a bit of foreshadowing for her as she was also able to tell kon was not Ichigo right off the bat. Hum meeting him in the park on her way home, the fight with her brother, the Don bit nothing stalkerish there all normal interactons which for the most part Ichigo started. Ah heres one in which she aproched Ichigo ....... to talk about what happend to Rukia. Nope no stalkerish moments there and in fact she gave Ichigo the resolve to go after Rukia. All of the SS arc closest thing is her willingness to stay with Ichigo while he trains rather then go eat but that is more a show of support then anything stalkerish. Ok, she did follow Ichigo after he left the class when the hollow badge sounded, but then so did Chad and she was more interseted in skiping class then Ichigo. Ok, chapter 189 here we go, this is it we have Orihime stalking ..... Shinji with Chad about what is up with him and Ichigo. So close but no cigar. Ok Then there is when she went and found Ichigo and the Vizards ...... like Yamoto asked her to. and thats it untill her kidnaping and no her going to say good bye is not stalking in any deffinetion of the word.

You are twisting things...

1. Although Ichigo told Rukia to leave her alone at the grave. He also said "Well if you are gonna follow me. Do it more discreetly!!!" Meaning...her presence was welcome. He already agreed to help her out, and he knew she have to follow him. He didn't mind her being there. When a person agrees to it. It isn't stalking.

2. She moved into his closet because it was necessary to be near him. So she could use the glove on him (That sounds really naughty)
Did he kick her out? At anytime did he say "You can't stay here!"? When the person whom closet you moved into without permission doesn't call the police. If he doesn't kick you out on your ass. *coughermclearthroatcough* ...It IS NOT called stalking. It's more or less referred to as "Roommates"

3. Didn't Ichigo and Chad make a pact to watch each others back, to fight for each other, to die for each other if need be? Yeah; right? So if Ichigo runs after a hollow and Chad follows. It isn't considered stalking, being nosy, it isn't an intrusion. It should be expected. This is a guy who went to SS with him to help him save Rukia. (Although he wasn't asked it wouldn't be odd to Ichigo for the reasons stated above)Now did Orihime at anytime ever make this deal with Ichigo? Did Ichigo ever vow to her that he'd watch her back and so on and so forth? (Remember this before Ulq and Yammy arrived) No; right? She did make a vow to protect him in SS, but that was all by herself and Ichigo had no part in it. My point is...Even if you have the best intentions, even if you love the guy and he is facing danger. If he jumps up and runs out of room. If he does not call you...If you are not named Chad. If you run out the room and follow him...it is indeed...*coughcoughermclearthroat* ...Stalking.


4. Her following him to "Motivate him to go to SS" has been answered above...


Lastly...Besides being plotkai, and foreshadowing of events to come . I always wondered why Kubo chose Orihime whom wasn't close to Ichigo in any way (That didn't involve her stalking him) to find Ichigo when Rukia could not. I always figured it's because she can out sniff any police dog and find Ichigo under six feet of earth and he doesn't have to have any cocaine on him for her to do so either... Her stalker skills are second to none!


Now the reason I dislike her is because although she phails where Rukia succeeds. She doesn't do anything about it. Instead she does things like ...go to HM and put her friends at risk, just so she can confirm her value to others (Ichigo)

The reason I think she is a stalker...

She insinuates herself into his life. She just tags along without Ichigo hinting or seemingly desiring her company.

P.S...She cries to damn much