[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Demi.

But fluff isn't glory hogging.
Nanoha had that whole Reinforce battle virtually to her self and all of the longer battles. Fate did get shafted as far as battles go, whether you want to believe it or not.

Fate lost one battle, her main one with Signum. Although the ones she had were chopped a bit. But if it were me, I'd chop NanoFate fluff scenes to get her fight and relationship with Signum better developed. If you think Fate had the right amount of time total, would you feel that chopping some NanoFate to develop the Fate/Signum relationship be something worthy of doing? Because that friend/rival relationship is really interesting to me.

But let's be clear: out of all the characters, Fate lost the least in the transition to the movie.

I guess my stance is Fate should have close to the same time as Nanoha, maybe a little less...But you think she should have a lot less? It's the only thing I'm able to pick up on from this circular debate.

Because it is not a matter of screentime to me. Hell, if they managed to cover Chrono and Lindy and resolve their angst towards the book, and also Fate's relationship with her brother and mother, I wouldn't care if they had NanoFate scenes as well. But if we need to cut things, then I start looking at what is not vital.

Let me be clear about this as well: I do like the NanoFate dynamic. I like their friendship. I like Yuuno, and I like his relationship with Nanoha (and would like to see more of his relationship with Fate as well). There are a lot of characters I like. But I am willing to take the axe to any of them, to give what is *needed*. Needs outweigh wants to me, plain and simple.

And going into the future, Fate and NanoFate will continue to get scenes and development. This was about the only time for Lindy, Chrono, Hayate, and the Wolks. I'm pretty much betting that none of them will receive *any* real development in the future. They are all side characters who won't get jack shit from here on.

Actually it's Chrono I have a hard time picturing acting all emotional. He also feels stone cold to me. He lightens up in StrikerS, but until then...I just can't see it.

And we see why. I mean, I think you'd argue that Fate's cold demeanor in the first movie and series made sense. You know why. Thus we also know why Chrono is "stone cold"; he's the Fate of A's. Yet, Fate is still more important? We go for the girl who has emotional issues from childhood that turned her into someone who carefully guarded her emotions... but screw the guy who turned out similarly? True, the situations aren't exactly similar, but it obviously affected Chrono enough to have him bury his feelings and emotions, and you don't want him to ever deal with that?

This is just one of those things that I'd have to see to believe. I loved how it was in the movie, if your version would have an equal impact, I couldn't say. I mean putting it down on paper is one thing, but animating it is another. There are a whole lot of issues you could come across.

So I suppose writing it out what matter much to you. You probably aren't reading any of my Fate fics, either, since the written form doesn't do anything for you? Obviously, I can't animate it, so you've set this up as something that can never be resolved for you. You aren't open to the idea, because it would have to be animated, but because it never can, you can't be open to it. Talk about circular.

I just feel that Fate really needed that dream scene with Precia. It completed her character so that she actually could move on.

And yet, she doesn't. If she had, Jail wouldn't have been able to hit hard at her. And in the next movie, Fate will have another issue with Precia. And the one beyond that, and the one beyond that... because I guess Tsuzuki can't think of any other way to give her issues, other than her mother. Is that what you want?

It's probably my favorite scene of any season, and it is the scene where Fate had the most impact on me. I'm obviously not going to willingly give it up easily. And to me, Nanoha is the largest part of Fate's life in A's. She almost feels completely dependent on her. Similarly to how she was with Precia in the first season.

So, Fate has exchanged one dependency for another? Isn't that not healthy? I think, then, the greatest development for Fate's character, would be her ability to exist on her own, not dependent upon anyone.

Originally Posted by Demi.

It's sort of true, a good editor could probably get in that Lindy/Chrono scene you all so dream of having without even touching an inch of NanoFate screen time. But the preconceived notion that NanoFate is mere "pointless fluff" instantly leads to those scenes being targeted...Despite them being far from an over-abundance in the first place.

I wouldn't say "pointless fluff" although some might. As I said above, I do think it has some value... but if everything has value to someone, then nothing can be cut and we end up with a 6 hour movie. Obviously, some things have to be cut, then. And the only objective way of doing that, is looking at what is most central to the plot.

We get that it is good for Fate and the NanoFate relationship. We really do. I don't know how many times I have to say this for it to get through to you. But you're being subjective about it, which is understandable, while we are trying to be objective.

...And say what you will, but they're important to fully delve into the NanoFate dynamic. If I'm not left thinking of what great friends they are or how dependent they are on each other by the end, then something went terribly wrong.

Essentially, unless the movie pleases you 100%, then it is a terribad movie? But even with those cuts, I still think you'd find their relationship to be a close one.

And realize that none of the people you are arguing with, think it is a "bad" movie. Well, maybe Nanya, heh. I'm one of the lower ones, and I think it is just average (even though a 5 should be average, thus I went with 6). So you're upset with people who still rated it highly, and thus still found good within in.