[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I really can't believe in "if you build it, they will come."

And if you don't build them, you've got nothing to sell. Chicken-and-egg problem.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Really, the key is who you're going to get to fund these "mainstream projects" and what's in it for them (and how much time and investment will it take before they start getting their money back). The second is, of course, how you're going to make money off of these viewers in a direct sense. From my point of view, the demand is too low, the cost to market is too high, and the ROI is far too uncertain at least for animated TV series designed to reach this "broader adult" demographic, because you still generally need to get them on TV and in a timeslot where that audience can watch it. If the concept is so good that it can appeal to a broad cross-section of people in that format, I'd really wonder if it wouldn't be better to make it live-action, at least to reach a broader domestic market.

I did touch on this point, that the anime industry in Japan isn't really geared towards mainstream entertainment. The bulk of anime is meant to be advertisement for existing product, be it manga or toys. That's the way the business model works. Which is to say that the Japanese industry doesn't appear to see profit in shows for mainstream audiences.

You're right too about stories with broad appeal tending to be better suited for live-action drama. Animation is at its strongest when paired with fantasy, as it gives producers the greatest possible freedom to work with visual concepts that are impossible in live-action, or otherwise prohibitively expensive. That is not to say that animation cannot work with "realistic" drama, but it would mean working towards a different goal, like using "hyper-realism" to serve a dramatic theme.

So where does that leave us? Here:

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Animated movies are perhaps a bit more feasible (and there are animated movies released every year in Japan that can appeal to a "broader adult audience"), but when Disney can't make even the best Ghibli films work overseas, I'd really want a clearer understanding of what they're doing wrong.

Animated movies seem to be the key way to market mainstream anime in Japan. TV anime, on the other hand, tends to be heavily associated with merchandise targeted at core/niche consumers (that is, the otaku).

As for why movie anime aren't successful in the United States, like you say, it does appear to be boil down to botched marketing.

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

You have a very broad and liberal definition of mainstream, my friend...

I don't think so. I just happen to regard "mainstream" differently from you. Like Triple_R, I think of "mainstream" as the kind of things everyday people chat about at the water-cooler, things that get reported in mainstream media. The anime may even be an indie production, but if its content has broad enough appeal, I would consider it "mainstream".

On that basis, I'm very sceptical of the "mainstream" appeal of shows like Madoka Magica. Like someone else mentioned, there's very little chance that mainstream audiences would take characters dressed in frilly costumes seriously. The casual viewer can't be expected to know that it's meant to be a deconstruction of a very well-established anime sub-genre. It would require intimate familiarity with anime tropes, which to me is a significant barrier to entry for casual viewers.