[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Hunter

First this doesn't answer to anything I've said.

you said izanagi wasnt widespread or often used.

Secondly Izanagi doesn't "rewrite history" it's basically a checkpoint your body will rewind to which make you unkillable during a few seconds at the cost of your eye.

oh... you mean "rewrite history"

This is a powerful ability to use when you're desperate but it's certainly not godlike or Danzou and his super bio-engineered Izanagi would be alive and ruling Konoha.

this is a funny point since it was a powerful uchiha using MS who beat danzo...

All this has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

it does. you forget what you wrote. you made a point of saying that tobirama and tsunade are 'kage level' and i am saying that 'kage level' doesnt amount to much when facing MS.

You claim you're talking about the regular Senju and Uchiha and yet can't help but take Sasuke and Itachi as example when they are 2 of the top 5 Uchiha who have ever lived.

nope. never said regular. i specifically used the word 'stellar'. if you like i can say elite or any other synonym. its all been reduced to semantics at this point right?

This is similar than saying that since Minato (regular eyes) defeated Obito (Uchiha + Senju DNA + MS) then regular people are superior to all those Bloodlines. This is a ridiculous argument which, again, doesn't answer the points I've made in the slightest.

i was answering your point about sage mode equaling MS

Originally Posted by Vindi89

It sounds to me like you're placing the Uchiha on a pedestal they were never on. Consider a few facts:

1. Very few ever awoken the MS. In fact Itachi himself believed only Madara before him awakened the MS when he spared Sasuke's life during the Uchiha massacre. Obviously Itachi didn't know of Obito at the time and its obvious Madara's brother was thrown in there as an after thought.

really? even though he clearly knew shisui had MS? that's a weird fact

2. Not every Uchiha awaken's the Sharingan. But every Senju we've seen so far seems to have amazing vitality.

and vitality does what exactly? also this is a very solid fact considering you're basing it on 3 senju...

What's left to worry about against the Uchiha? Oh right Genjutsu... Chiyo already gave a sound strategy for that.. never fight a sharingan user alone. Hunter already addressed Izanagi, so not gonna go over that again.

thank you for not going over it. pointing out your fallacies is tiresome

You tend to focus on the active/flashy feats rather than the passive/ subtle ones. Consider that it was only the Uzumaki clan (Senju) who were able to become hosts and contain the Kyuubi (before he was even stripped of 1/2 his chakra). Consider that Naruto's mother actually survived the Kyuubi being separated from her (something that normally kills the host instantly).

consider that madara and obito can control the kyuubi with their sharingans...

After saying all that.. I actually agree with you, but I'm able to dismiss it as bad writing nothing more. Kish gave the Uchihas amazing illusionary powers yet he has to go out of his way to find excuses for these powers not to be used when it makes perfect sense to use them. Example? Madara could have created many clones of himself, tsukuyomi-ed the entire alliance and had a peaceful 10-tails summoning..but he didn't why? Its boring story-telling.

we dont know that madara can use tsukiyomi. also, we agree on the storytelling a bit. the senju insert is awful as Hunter points out below

Don't look for 100% rationality in a kid's manga.. you're not going to find it.

ugh this again? fine... the manga is for 3 year olds and shouldn't have any plot consistency or explanations.... you're right....

Originally Posted by Hunter

The Senju were incredibly badly implanted in the show, the author simply pulled them out of thin air 398 chapter into the story and we still don't know anything about them 122 chapter later.

its funny how we agree after all this time