[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

I was going against the idea of a closed system since all espers violate conservation of energy in one way or another, it seemed silly to me to keep it that way. The thermodynamic system a human lives in is also not closed. If she's creating a thermodynamically closed system within the bounds of her AIM, that might produce problems for her to try to release her own generated body heat when she exercises. More importantly, the tayaki in her hands would still cool down if this was her power since the heat from the tayaki would flow into her hands and other parts of her body within the system and not keep the food warm.

Any idea that involves a transfer of heat will without fail show effects of temperature loss over time unless there's some sort of heat energy source. There must be something giving energy to the tayaki, there's no way around this point, using controlled entropy or thermodynamics can't change this point.

Ah, but i said 'within the bounds of her AIM,' but not 'encompassing her AIM.' No esper constantly exerts their power over all points within the bounds of their AIM, so if her power were 'thermodynamic isolation,' then she should be able to selectively isolate only the portion of her AIM that overlaps with the box of taiyaki, thus creating a closed system that, at a state of equilibrium, would be approximately the temperature of warm taiyaki.

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

True... but it would also be simple to wear an oven mitt and be able to touch a boiling kettle. The brief respite from the kettle burning her hands and the not super hand melting temperature would allow her power to kick in, that is, assuming entropy control.

Which is why i proposed the idea of a 'threshold.' For instance: let us say her 'range' is '+/- 50 degrees.' If the temperature outside the closed system is 75 degrees, and the temperature inside the system is 115 degrees, then she could isolate the system. If, on the other hand, the temperature inside the system were 150 degrees, then her isolation would fail. If this were the case, then one way the power could be improved would be by widening its 'range of effect.'

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

Ah, but you misunderstand me. If Uiharu at level 1 can inhibit entropy at an atomic level, then she would also be able to affect entropy at the molecular level at level 1! If you can control whether a ball bounces or not, you could probably stop if from moving in a particular direction just as easily. Vibrational and translational motion is the same thing, motion. She'd be able to do all I said at level 1.

It is not necessarily the case that the ability to affect a particular frame of reference also grants the ability to affect all frames of reference that encompass the frame of reference you can affect. I will admit, this is a conceptual difficulty inherent in trying to construct a power that operates by manipulating natural laws, rather than one that operates 'simply' by violating conservation of energy, but bear with me for a moment.

One could ask, if Aerohand and Hydrokinesis are somehow subsets of 'pure' Telekinesis, rather than 'material manipulation,' why can Kongou not telekinetically affect anything other than atmospherically dispersed gases? Similarly, you could ask how Accelerator's power is any different from very strong telekinesis, or why 'Aerohand' and 'Offensive Armor' are both considered level 4, when 'Aerohand' should theoretically be able to accomplish the exact same effect as 'Offensive Armor,' in addition to all the other things it can do.

Part of increasing level is increasing your understanding of how your 'personal reality' functions. In another thread, i actually did posit that greater understanding of her power might lead Uiharu to make the mental connection between vibrational motion and transitional motion, and the expansion of abilities such a breakthrough would grant. If her power remained the ability to create 'closed systems,' it could lead to some very bizarre effects - including the 'Constant Speed' effect. It may be that Constant Speed and Constant Temperature are both subsets of the same broader power, and the users of each are just starting with different base assumptions about the nature of their personal reality.

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

I'm currently out of time, but I will be back with more later.

I'm enjoying these debates too much. >.> You're very good at this, Alhazred.

I look forward to it! I'm enjoying this quite a bit as well. It's nice to have an interlocutor who doesn't immediately counter with, 'Well, Accelerator/Touma is still better.'

Originally Posted by Haak

Huh? I thought they did know, but just that she never actually showed it to them in action.

Actually, what Uiharu said was 'Misaka-tachi,' which roughly translates as 'Misaka et al.' The only person explicitly included in the 'does not know' group is Misaka. This might be because Uiharu idolizes Misaka, and was embarrassed by her relatively weak power. Kuroko obviously knows what Uiharu's power does; they've been friends for years, they trained in Judgment together, and Kuroko actually thought about it for a while before concluding that Uiharu's power wouldn't be able to get her out of jams. Saten may or may not know, but if she doesn't know, that might be because Uiharu is sensitive to Saten's insecurities regarding her own lack of ability, so she didn't want to bring it up if Saten didn't ask her about it.