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Spoiler for Hopefully complete list of who get killed, by whom, where and how for each episode, first according to the magic narrative, then according to the mystery narrative:
Ep1
Magic culprit: Beatrice
First twilight: Krauss, Rudolf, Kyrie, Rosa, Gohda, Shannon
Second twilight: Eva (Stake of Asmodeus of Lust), Hideyoshi (Stake of Beelzebub of Gluttony)
Forth twilight: Kinzo (Stake of Mammon of Greed)
Fifth twilight: Kanon (Stake of Satan of Wrath)
Sixth twilight: Genji (Stake of Lucifer of Pride)
Seventh twilight: Nanjo (Stake of Belphegor of Sloth)
Eight twilight: Kumasawa (Stake of Leviathan of Envy)
Ninth twilight: Natsuhi
Missing: Jessica, George, Battler, Maria
Who was killed? Krauss, Rudolf, Kyrie, Rosa, Gohda
By whom? Sayo dressed up as Shannon (and possibly Genji)
Where? Either in the dining hall and then were moved in the gardening storehouse or directly in the gardening storehouse (there seemed to be too few blood in the dining hall for them to have been killed there)
How? They were shoot with guns with bullets so powerful they could disfigure a face. Hideyoshi later lied about Shannon’s body being among them.
Who was killed? Eva, Hideyoshi
By whom? Sayo dressed up as Kanon or Genji
Where? Their room in the main house
How? They trusted Kanon or Genji enough to open the door and he shoot them in the head then placed the stakes in the holes.
Who was killed? Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa
By whom? Sayo dressed up as Beatrice
Where? The parlour
How? She got in with her key and shoot them in the face then also shoot them in the points mentioned by the epitaph and placed the stakes in the holes
Who was killed? Jessica, George, Battler, Maria, Sayo dressed up as Beatrice
By whom? The bomb
Where? The hall of the main house
How? The bomb turned on by Sayo exploded at midnight
Ep2
Magic culprit: Beatrice (all the twilights), the goats (ate the missing people)
First twilight: Krauss, Natsuhi. Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie
Second twilight: Jessica (Stake of Asmodeus of Lust), Kanon (Stake of Satan of Wrath)
Forth twilight: Shannon (Stake of Mammon of Greed)
Fifth twilight: Gohda (Stake of Beelzebub of Gluttony)
Sixth twilight: George (Stake of Lucifer of Pride)
Seventh twilight: Nanjo (Stake of Belphegor of Sloth)
Eight twilight: Kumasawa (Stake of Leviathan of Envy)
Missing: Kinzo, Genji, Battler, Rosa, Maria
Who was killed? Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie
By whom? Sayo (and possibly Genji)
Where? The chapel
How? They were drugged and then shoot in the stomach which was later filled with candies
Who was killed? Jessica
By whom? Sayo dressed up as Kanon
Where? Jessica’s room
How? She was shoot in the back then a stake was placed inside the wound.
Who was killed? Kumasawa, Nanjo
By whom? Genji
Where? The kitchen and then they were moved in the courtyard
How? Their throats were cut with a kitchen knife then they were shoot and stakes were placed inside the wounds
Who was killed? Gohda, George
By whom? Sayo dressed up as Shannon
Where? Natsuhi’s room
How? She shoot them then placed a stake inside the wounds
Who was killed? Sayo dressed up as Shannon
By whom? Herself
Where? Natsuhi’s room
How? After placing a stake near her she shoot her own head and used a trick to hide the gun once she would lose her hold on it.
Who was killed? Genji, Battler, Rosa, Maria
By whom? The bomb
Where? Battler in Kinzo’s study, Genji just out of it, Rosa and Maria near the chapel
How? The bomb turned on by Sayo exploded at midnight
Ep3
Magic culprit: Beatrice (First twilight & second twilight), Eva-Beatrice (following twilights) using the Siesta sister from the forth twilight to George’s death in the ninth twilight
First twilight: Kinzo, Shannon, Kanon, Genji, Gohda, Kumasawa
Second twilight: Rosa, Maria
Forth twilight: Rudolf (Stake of Asmodeus of Lust)
Fifth twilight: Hideyoshi (Stake of Beelzebub of Gluttony)
Sixth twilight: Kyrie (Stake of Mammon of Greed)
Seventh twilight: Krauss (Stake of Lucifer of Pride)
Eight twilight: Natsuhi (Stake of Satan of Wrath)
Ninth twilight: George, Nanjo, Battler
Missing: Jessica
Winner: Eva
Who was killed? Kumasawa, Gohda, Genji
By whom? Sayo dressed up either as Shannon or Kanon (likely Shannon)
Where? guest room on the second floor of the main house, third floor waiting room, second floor honored guest room
How? She shoot them
Who was killed? Rosa
By whom? Eva
Where? The rose garden
How? She pushed her and caused her to fall on the garden fence, where its spear-shaped prongs pierced Rosa’s neck
Who was killed? Maria
By whom? Eva
Where? The rose garden
How? She was strangled to death.
Who was killed? Rudolf, Kyrie
By whom? Hideyoshi?
Where? The hall of the main house
How? They were shoot. Then Sayo placed a stake in the holes.
Who was killed? Hideyoshi
By whom? Kyrie
Where? The hall of the main house
How? He was shoot after he shoot Kyrie. Then Sayo placed a stake in the hole.
Who was killed? Krauss, Natsuhi
By whom? Eva
Where? Either the lobby or the arbor
How? They were drugged and then strangled. It’s unsure if they were killed in the lobby and then taken in the arbour or lead in the arbour after having been drugged and then killed. Then Sayo shoot them and placed the stakes in the holes.
Who was killed? George
By whom? Sayo dressed up as Shannon
Where?The parlour
How? She shoot him
Who was killed? Nanjo
By whom? Sayo likely dressed up as Shannon
Where? Just out of the servants' room
How? She shoot him
Who was killed? Battler
By whom? Eva
Where? The parlour
How? She shoot him
Who was killed? Jessica, Sayo (pretending to be Kanon)
By whom? The bomb?
Where? The parlour?
How? The bomb turned on by Sayo exploded at midnight. It’s however possible that Sayo didn’t wait for the bomb to explode but killed Jessica and herself before the explosion.
Ep4
Magic culprit: Kinzo using the Siesta sisters for all the twilights minus the second, Beatrice (she burns Kinzo), Gaap with the help of Ronove (second twilight)
First twilight: Natsuhi, Rudolf, Hideyoshi, Eva, Genji, Rosa
Second twilight: George, Jessica
Forth twilight: Kanon
Fifth twilight: Shannon (Stake of Mammon of Greed?)
Sixth twilight: Nanjo (Stake of Belphegor of Sloth?)
Seventh twilight: Krauss (Stake of Lucifer of Pride?)
Eight twilight: Kyrie (Stake of Leviathan of Envy?)
Ninth twilight: Kinzo, Gohda, Kumasawa
Tenth twilight: Maria, Battler
Who was killed? Natsuhi, Rudolf, Hideyoshi, Eva, Rosa
By whom? Sayo dressed up as Shannon (Natsuhi, Rudolf) & Genji (Hideyoshi, Eva, Rosa)
Where? The dining hall
How? They were shoot to their heads
Who was killed? Kyrie
By whom? Sayo
Where? A old guest room in the depths of the first floor of the main house
How? She was shoot to the head then a stake was placed in the hole
Who was killed? Krauss
By whom? Sayo (or possibly Genji)
Where? Near the back door
How? He was shoot in the head and a stake was stuck inside it
Who was killed? Nanjo
By whom? Sayo (or possibly Genji)
Where? Near an old well
How? He was shoot in the head and a stake was placed next to him
Who was killed? George
By whom? Genji
Where? The arbour
How? He was shoot in the chest
Who was killed? Kumasawa, Gohda
By whom? Genji
Where? The gardening storehouse
How? They were shoot while they were faking being hung by their necks
Who was killed? Jessica
By whom? Sayo dressed up as Kanon
Where? Jessica’s room
How? She was shoot in the head
Who was killed? Maria
By whom? Sayo dressed up as Beatrice
Where? The dining hall
How? She was poisoned
Who was killed? Genji
By whom? Sayo dressed up as Shannon
Where? The dining hall
How? She shoot him in the head
Who was killed? Sayo dressed up as Shannon
By whom? Herself
Where? Near an old well
How? After placing a stake near her she shoot her own head and used a trick to hide the gun once she would lose her hold on it.
Who was killed? Battler
By whom? The bomb
Where? The hall of the main house
How? The bomb turned on by Sayo exploded at midnight
Ep5
Magic culprit: Beatrice?
First twilight: George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa, Genji, Krauss
Second twilight: Hideyoshi (Stake of Beelzebub of Gluttony?)
GAME SUSPENDED
Who was killed? Krauss
By whom? Sayo (or possibly Genji)
Where? The golden room and/or the underground passage toward Kuwadorian
How? He was strangled after Natsuhi heard him on the phone
Who was killed? George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa
By whom? Sayo (or possibly Genji)
Where? The golden room and/or the underground passage toward Kuwadorian
How? After faking their dead George, Jessica, Maria, Rosa left the room they had been sleeping in, reached the golden room or the underground passage, were drugged and then their throat was cut.
Who was killed? Genji? (it’s unsure if he’s dead at the point of suspension of the game)
By whom? Sayo
Where? The golden room and/or the underground passage toward Kuwadorian
How? Genji too after he faked his own dead reached the golden room or the underground passage and had or would have had his throat cut.
Who was killed? Hideyoshi? (it’s unsure if he’s dead at the point of suspension of the game)
By whom? Sayo, possibly Genji if his real death was supposed to happen after Hideyoshi’s
Where? The parlour?
How? He was or would have been shoot in the back
Ep6
Magic culprit: George, Jessica, Kanon, Shannon, Beatrice, Battler
First twilight: Eva, Kyrie, Rosa, Maria, Natsuhi, Battler
Second twilight: Kanon
GAME SUSPENDED
Who was killed? Eva, Rosa, Maria, Kyrie, Natsuhi
By whom? Erika
Where? Eva in the second floor honored guest room, Rosa and Maria in the parlour, Kyrie in Krauss's study, Natsuhi in her room
How? When they faked being dead Erika really killed them by cutting their head off.
Spoiler for Replies to Haguruma under spoiler-cut due to lenght:
Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma
I have to say, I never paid much attention to it during the VN because it never seemed to go anywhere. With the manga it seems as if it was a matter of the very poor editing that VN-EP8 went through, because even the lines that were there take on a completely new meaning.
The sad thing is, even the PS3 version of EP8 seems poor now, since for some reason the seiyuu seemed as confused concerning what to do with the scenes as we readers were. The battle between Ange and Beatrice in the chapel is piss-poor compared to how it appears in the manga, not because Ohara or Satô are doing a bad job, but because it lacks context and all the important lines lack impact...Beato just appears uncontextually mean and Ange just bitchy and whiny.
At the end of chapter 25 now, Ange breaks down crying (in a positive way of finally allowing grief), banging on Beato's chest, when being told to grasp her happiness and live...that is a development that I wanted to see.
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*nods* I remember I rather disliked Ep 8 VN Ange as she came out as a whiny, immature brat in a way that made me think she really didn't look mature enough to handle the truth while Beato, left alone with her, gave me the feeling she looked down on her/disliked her quite a bit and played nice with her only in front of Battler for Battler's sake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma
Spoiler for Translation:
Beato: Had I really thought the world to be that fleeting
I would have been able to die alone If I were to die
would he cry over me?
I am sure he would cry and cry until his tears dried
and one day, as if nothing had ever happened he would move on with somebody else
No
I don't want anybody else to have him
Beato: Everyone must think so
Something so dangerous can only become a seed for anguish
Being the master of that room I could have destroyed it or thrown it all into the sea...
Just by that nobody would have had to die in the end, right?
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Thank you so much! Though I'll admit I was hoping for something more visual but maybe that's because deep down I'm just an hopeless Battler/Sayo shipper...
Still it was interesting to read how Sayo too can be jealous to the point she prefers Battler to be dead than in the arms of another... I fear she's taking lessons from Kyrie...
Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma
Well, right now I (and the Japanese fandom) can think of 2 alternatives:
1. The fantasy-alternative would be that Ange IS actually going through the world of the witches and comes into contact with the Fragment that is CotGW, so that Sayo's message bottle CotGW can still remain in Ikuko's care without ever reaching her, just the same as with the Book of One Truth.
2. The reality-alternative implies that everything we see in Ange's travel is codified as a document written by Featherikuko as well (as she implies in chapter 21). This would mean that Ange travelling to the "Capital of Books" under the guidance of Featherine and Bern and there finding CotGW along with being handed the BotOT is just codification for her coming to the Hachijo's home and there finding Sayo's message bottle while waiting for Ikuko to hand her Eva's diary.
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The reality-alternative possibility might also be true but wasn't it said that Hachijo refused to meet her? Unless Tohya refused to do so and Ikuko instead met her and handed her all that? Or we were lied about Tohya refusing to meet her?
This is getting confusing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma
Yeah, I totally forgot the candy and that I found it strange why that didn't happen in any of the other 3 core-stories...it would make total sense if this was one of many ways thought up by Sayo but, since only Legend and Turn made it ashore and Tohya actually remembered the rose-thing happening and inserted it in the story, this was the one that stuck.
If you think about it, this gives Maria a whole other level of creep-factor...I know for her it didn't seem as permanent, since she's a child and she probably actually believed in the Golden Land...but she still actually wanted to KILL her mother...and even the candy thing turns really dark now...
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I like to think Maria really believed/wanted to believe in the golden land but yes, Ep 4 made very clear that Maria had some serious dark feelings for her mother...
Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma
Well, if we take all that into further consideration (and back then I actually considered that Young-Eva talking to Eva was actually a code for the culprit talking to her) she is talking to Young Eva before she even thinks about solving the epitaph.
Sayo says in CotGW(2) that she could convince Eva and Hideyoshi by threatening to hurt George and by showing them a part of the gold. We can assume from EP2 that she likely didn't take them all the way to the Room of Gold, but instead just showed them part of it.
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It might be. Maybe Sayo promised Eva the headship and enough gold to fix their money problems. In Ep 3 Eva says in the beginning she thought stealing Krauss' place would have been enough but then she was blinded by gold and...
Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma
Eva's family is (rightfully) doubted by everyone and Kyrie decides to take Hideyoshi to the mansion to question him together with Rudolph. There they think of having the upper hand but Kyrie's bullets "cannot wound Eva-Beato" or better, they were taken out beforehand. Hideyoshi produced one of the hidden guns (shown by Eva-Beato summuning the Chiesters) and shoots Rudolph and Kyrie. Kyrie isn't dead yet and manages to shoot a distracted Hideyoshi.
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There's contraddiction here. If Kyrie's gun can't shoot, then it wouldn't be able to shoot Hideyoshi either. The manga depicts the scene as happening really fast so my feeling is more that Kyrie and Rudolf were taken by surprise. Interesting enough it doesn't seem like Rudolf is holding a gun but he might have dropped it when he was shoot but what's even more interesting is that Hideyoshi definitely doesn't look like holding one when he faces Kyrie who's on her knees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma
Eva was actually in her room this whole time and assuming that Hideyoshi's death was a planned assassination by the other two families, who wanted to seperate them, she now planned to take revenge on Natsuhi and Krauss. She probably drugged the coffee and then strangled them and dragged them out into the garden.
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I always favour the idea she (or Sayo) had tricked them into going out than that dragging them as dragging them is a heavy and risky job while leading them out with an excuse seems much more easy. But yes, she could have dragged them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma
During this, George is called to the mansion by Sayo over the landline (by calling Nanjo's room and then having the phone handed to George). She likely already saw that it is too late and thought everybody is better to die, so she at least wanted to "go with the people that mattered most to her". It was likely also a message to Eva that she can have the money in return for her sons life, so she wrote the 07151129 on the door.
When George is discovered missing, Nanjo is still playing along with the witch illusion.
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For me if Eva was bribed, Sayo is more like trying to go on with her epitaph than anything else so she keeps on killing regardless of Eva's murders... or considers Eva's murders as part of the ritual same way as she does with Genji's murders in other episodes.
Eva might not know who bribed her as we know she didn't plan to reveal her identity so when George dies she doesn't know what to do or whom to suspect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma
This leaves only Battler and Eva actually alive and, in her desperation of ending up as THE culprit, Eva ends up shooting Battler.
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Interesting enough Jessica is hidden by Kanon in the parlour and Battler is shoot in the parlour... if Sayo was hidden there as well Battler was shoot in front of her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma
It is said in the EP7 manga that it was Hideyoshi.
It said, I quote, "Eva and Hideyoshi were being bribed. Being suspected, Hideyoshi killed Rudolph and Kyrie in the mansion. The not immediately dead Kyrie killed Hideyoshi."
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Hum... as Hideyoshi isn't shown holding a gun I feel tempted to ask if the Japanese sentence is really that binding or it can be translated in another way that leaves the doubt on who killed Rudolf and Kyrie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceBorg
I was rereading the EP7 tea party and I noticed that when Kyrie goes to the guest house she uses a kitchen knife to kill.
Genji used a kitchen knife in EP2 to kill Nanjo and Kumasawa.
I wonder if those two things have some relation to Genji's true role in Prime.
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It'll be interesting if it were a hint that actually in Prime Genji has started following the epitaph as per program while the adults were killing each other in the golden room. It would also resemble the structure of Ep 3 as in Ep 3 the adults offed each other but the servants were offed by Sayo and the same applied to George and (possibly) to Jessica.
If the planned sacrifices for the first twilight for Prime were Kumasawa, Nanjo, Gohda, Maria, George and Jessica Kyrie and Rudolf might have returned to a rather empty house.
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