[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Yes, because using a karyuu issen that covers a mile radius is an excellent choice of attack in the middle of a city. -_- Mages are capable of narrowing the focus for their attacks without sacrificing power, y'know.

Wonder if that apply to AEC-Equipement as well xDU

Originally Posted by Keroko

And I am quite aware that devices have functionality the AEC aren't capable of, thank you. Just as I'm aware that this does not go for all devices either. The swiss army knife has always been an advantage of the main casts devices, and indeed one the AEC lacks. Also, there's a great variety of situations in the series prior where Signum would have benefited from a shield, so regardless of your "I hate shields!" attitude, claiming that it is a step back is a falsehood. Magic can be cast without swords and wands as well, I guess that means all devices could just be reduced to necklaces and bracelets? It's circular logic, Aki. And it doesn't work.

That would be true if Signum was a bombardement mage or able to cast an energy sword entirely made of magic, and so far, we know that's not the case. Panzerschild and Panzergeist can cover very efficiently whatever need for a shield Signum might have while fighting any non-EC Driver opponent. Demonstrated several times with great proficency, part as of why she was renowed as a lightning bruiser was the fact she's fast, strong AND durable.

Originally Posted by Keroko

But if you so desperately want me to compare, I will. And here's what I see: Long, wide cuts that leave Signum open as hell. You know, the kinds you keep complaining about, only twice as big. Also fun detail, Signum "dominating" was against an unreacted Cypha. That's like saying Signum was "dominating" an untransformed mage. Cute, but hardly comparable. And it cracked against an unreacted Cypha as well. Nope, not seeing the superiority here.

Lol, i wonder what's the oppoesite of nostalgia googles because i think you're giving too much credit to the AEC-Cleaver here. I've also seen the chapter several times just to be sure and i can see the long linear slashes Signum uses against Cypha. At least she can move Laevatien more freely and can actually do something resembling to fencing instead of just hammer the cleaver against everything like she did in Ch. 24. Doing it from a standign point just depicts how limited her mobility is now in comparission with before.

Cypha's body and divider are enhaced with reacting but not her skills (unless her brain gets somehow smarter which doesn't have any evidence yet). Cypha was unable to match Signum in skill so she goes full reacted and destroyed her without any skill whatsoever. And last, an EC Driver isn't equal to an "unstranformed mage" by any means. Unreacted Dividers are very capable of offensive and powerfull attacks unlike standby form devices, Cypha was already wearing her combat clothing and her body is still very hard in that state. So no, i don't buy that argument. EC Drivers are dangerous for a reason, they're very pwoerfull even unreacted. There's a reason as of why Veryon is considered one of the most Badass members of the family.

Originally Posted by Keroko

I looked at the movie trailers, and even putting aside that the movies have a habit of cranking the powerscale up to 11 (seriously, movie 1 nanoha and Fate blow S1 Nanoha and Fate out of the water in all aspects) I stand by my claim. I still see the long, wide swings. Swings which you yourself claim are so terrible with the AEC. Yes, they are a bit faster than A's in this trailer, but I still fail to see how these swings are... superior to the fight in the manga. And what logic you use to come to that conclusion.

The fact she managed to use those same moves to fight efficiently someone clearly fast and probably more skilled than Cypha in a rapid-fire exchange of blows perhaps? I doubt AEC-Cleaver ould do such a thing, against Fate with that thing probably the better option Signum could do is to act like a Stone Wall and wait for an oportunity to smack Fate with the giant cleaver but it will require perfect timing and will be unnecesailly more difficult than fighting her using Laevatein. I'll go back to my main point. AEC-Cleaver/shield are only good for EC-Battles, for everything else: There's Laevatein xD!

Originally Posted by Keroko

And I warned you, didn't I? I warned you not to get me started on actual weapon use. But no, you decide to slam the AEC on realism. Fine. But you don't get to claim the grass is only green on your side. You slam the AEC on realism standpoints, I slam laevateine on realism standpoints. Fair's fair. No double standards.

Except Laevatein is not bound by the rules of realism while AEC-Cleaver is, at least to a much bigger degree. I don't deny the weapon can be used efficiently, i just say Laevatein is much more efficient and better adapted to Signum's fightstyle. Wonder if Signum ever will follow your logic and say "wow! this AEC-Equipement is so much better than Laevatein in every way", i dare Tsuzuki to make her say that.

Originally Posted by Keroko

If you want to use "but magic" as an excuse, stop ignoring that Signum is still a mage regardless of her equipment and that the AEC uses magical technobable to do what they do. Signum can still enhance her EAC equipment with magic, because that's a magical skill, as defined in the StrikerS manga.

And i invite you to stop assuming an AEC-Equipement can be enhaced the same way as a device cause that's not true. The best thing Signum can do is to put her magical output for the device perform it's tricks faster and stronger but it does nothing for durability. At least not as a passive ability as we see Agito having to manually activate the shield's barrier function. The entire point of the series is that Magcial skills are now less useful, even with the upgrades. In fact, the only thing the upgrades help with is for their magic to be of some use at all, albeit quite nerfed from the real deal.

Originally Posted by Keroko

And Aki? I've stopped giving you credit. Your bias shines through every single post and gets worse the deeper we get into a discussion. You ignore evidence, use double standards and hyperbole with what you present as valid, and even completely changed stances on an issue just to avoid admitting you were wrong, and then tried to keep acting as if that was always your opinion!

No Aki, credit is something I can no longer give you.

I've admitted since the beginning i'm biased towards Force and specifically towards Signum's portrayal on it (i didn't even hate Cypha now, i just see her as an annoyance) but being biased doesn't impede me from seeing details and stablishing arguments around them. I take evidence and examine it instead of swallowing it immediately as facts, then respond according to my conclussions.

I see equal insistence on you to discredit any and every single piece of info i dropped here regarding the AEC-Cleaver/shield discussion, i see you're really enamoured of shields and hold your own opinions about them so i think we could stop here, but i really enjoy debating with people who made an effort to present well-ordered arguments so if you want to continue i'll follow suit xD

You're right about one thing, tough. I'm here to express my opinion and expose my arguments over thinks i deem worthy of discussion, not to gather popularity or expect everyone to agree with my standpoint. So here are my views on the matter. Hope someone finds the reading interesting xD

Originally Posted by VezSketch

I used to think the same, but this actually isn't true - flashier, yes. Stronger, no. Divine Buster and Thunder Smasher went through Garden of Time and pulverized the volume of rock (majority of the material destroyed, estimations have GoT being enormous - kilometers in size - and it dwarfs Arthra), Divine Buster AOE variant also covered tens of kilometers and it's no stronger than the narrow beam version. Those feats mean those attacks have more than enough power to destroy a city. I just wanted to point that out.

Kinda going off topic, though. S1 and S2 just kind of have ridiculous feats happening.

I kind of agree with this. MOVIE-verse powers tend to be more flashier but are roguhly the same in power as the originals. Altough, i think Divine Buster and Thunder Smasher could only destroy a small town at best, not a full city (unless boosted by Blaster-3 perhaps xD). S1 is a very unrealiable source to scale and compare feats because the strenght of the characters keeps fluctuating from one episode to another. It's actually understandable because the series was still being defined at the moment and the staff has been deciding how to stablish the strenght of characters, we saw a more refined scale in A's. For example, the first use of Divine Buster wasn't even as an attack spell, just a long range sealing method for jewel seed that doesn't cause any damage at all (i declare the Jewel Seed-Tree episode of S1 as the most boring episode of the franchise, i almost felt asleep the first time i saw it, i swear xDU).

At the settled scale the basic Divine Buster is an excellent anti-personel spell with very strong destructive force that can also be used as an anti-structure or even anti-building attack. The bigger the power up Nanoha uses the bigger the destructive power and area becomes.