[Captain Bluebeard]

Originally Posted by Patchwork Chimera

The specific reason the massacre was ignited was for Battler's return. What did the poor sod do to get what he got, again? Giving her a childish promise of being his boybriend six years ago, promise that everyone (the maids, Jessica) stated (indirectly) was stupid to believe.
The logical retribution, of course, was to blow everyone in his face...

Do you even understand what Yasu's motive was? Because you're basically reffering to the many-many-many-many bits forming it, seeming to be actually missing the essence. At least, revenge for forgetting to bring her a pony is not it.

I'm not saying he doesn't have guts and heart for doing such a thing. I'm saying that everyone forgives her and live happily ever after. Even Eva. Natsuhi. Krauss. Rudolf. Kyrie... c'mon. Nobody here a little resenful of being massacred?

We've been assuming that Prime-Yasu is the culprit just for argument's sake, but I actually don't really believe that. In EP5, Battler reaches a truth. A truth that not only makes him forgive Beato, it even makes him willing to apologize to her. That's a good enough reason to believe that PrimeYasu isn't the culprit, and does not deserve being despised.

Hm... Eva is a bad person like me, and she has some beef against the maid anyway. You sure that poor woman whose life went to hell forgave Yasu? Apparently yes: in later episodes we see Eva perfecly allright asking forgiveness for being a bad PTSD, grieving aunt to Ange. Not even a 'You killed my family!'. What does Battler and Beatrice think the world is?!

Like Yasu, Eva wasn't a saint either. She did fuck Ange's life up, it's twisted to blame her for feeling remorseful about that fact.

And after all, what if Yasu didn't really kill her family? Yasu, the author of the forgeries isn't PieceBeatrice but MetaBeatrice. PieceBeatrice is the role she assigns to herself. However, in actuality, she is Meta-Beatrice, the one who spins the tales, killing and reviving everyone endlessly.

I mean a motive that makes me at least feel like you felt with Sweeney. Or Shion. She ended as a spot in the paviment. I didn't even think it was unfair after everything she did. But I could understand where she was coming from, and her motive for going mass murderer was covered for every aspect so throughly I believed it and felt a logic and convincing plot there.

That's a bit controversial in this case. Because Yasu's motive would be perfectly understandable to a person who actually believes in magic. I don't think such people exist (or at least the're very scarce?), but I am willing to accept it in the context of Umineko.

And actually, I do sympathize with (Piece)Yasu. I'm not saying I agree with killing everyone, I'm just saying I can see how she has been hurt, regardless of disagreeing with her actions.

Mass murder Is not excusable. But Yasu's motive is so weird and shady it's like she wanted to blow something and things went bad from there. So.. like an excuse. "Not my fault even if i say it was... forgive me for starting this madness?"

Are you sure we're on the same page about Yasu's motive?

"If Yasu showed George the truth, she would be surprised at his response" thats word of god. But she didn't. Instead of taking the options she had (confess, retire, convince, take a leap of faith or stay with Jessica as she anyway wanted) she took... mass murder.

Yean, but you know what? IF! She had no way to know how George might react. And Yasu is always depicted as a really insecure person (considering her body and how she's been brought up, it's natural).

I've felt insecure, I'm sure you too, and all the others in this discussion. For the ones who have already *ahem* went at it with their lovers: Oi! You there felt insecure when showing yourself for the first time to that special person? Did you had second thoughts? Maybe... don't know... like your only option was to blow away an island with 16 guys in it yourself included?
I say nay...

Yasu's case isn't the same as that. Plus, she's sort of in the middle of a huge mess she herself has been creating for six years.

But going serious: you don't think about killing a lot of people because you are afraid your boyfriend is not going to like your body. And if you do, go to the nearest mental hospital and do us a favor locking yourself up before something happens.

I seriously believe (and forgive me if my assumptions are rushed) that either you don't get the situation or you're just trying to be sarcastic. But you know, Yasu isn't afraid that George might not like her body. She's scared because it practically ruins his dreams for their relationship's future. Plus, her confession isn't an easy one to make.

Needless to say, I disagree with her choice of not coming clean with George, but it's not like it's hard to guess where it came from.

Originally Posted by jjblue1

We don't even know if PrimeYasu was really Kanon & Shannon or the idea to represent herself as two servants was merely metaphorical, we don't know if PrimeYasu played Kanon's role at Jessica's school with Jessica knowing it was Yasu/Shannon in truth, we don't know if George really planned to ask Shannon to marry him or it was just an one sided thing from Yasu/Shannon, just to name a couple of things that are rather important for Yasu.

Although I will agree with most things in this post, this is where I draw the line. It's true that we know almost nothing for certain, but we can be at least 99% sure that Yasu had some reason for writing those stories with herself as the culrpit and hoped to give someone a message through those. So I think it's unlikely she would make them vastly different from the actual events. Prime's events should at least reflect some of the game boards' circumstances.

Note also that PieceShannon and PieceKanon are strongly in love with George and Jessica and willing to off each other to fulfil their wish. Can the same be said for their Prime versions or they're just a metaphor of a wish of being a certain type of person?

Okay, having said all that I said above, this theory really doesn't seem unrealistic at all. Not sure if I can accept it completely, but at least I'm sure that the game boards are meant to be a huge metaphor about Prime.

If in all those years didn't realize it either she's very ignorant on anatomy or it's something that can't be seen first glance (if she had a uterus and it was removed/damaged, well at best you'll notice a scar that you won't necessarily connect to a missing/damaged uterus).

She does have such scars. There are vague implies that she shows it to Genji and the others in EP2 (Zombie Kanon scene). And I think it's also implied in other places, but I don't really remember any specific example.

If she could already realize herself what had happened to her, Genji told her nothing new... but somehow Umineko seems to imply she discovered it only right then and not before as apparently it's in that moment she start to consider herself as furniture.

The red scene doesn't necessarily imply that she just learnt at that very moment. Most probably, she takes out her frustration on Genji and Nanjo when they confess to her how she actually got it that wound

I like to think they are but that's not what Beatrice insist is her motive. Her motive is Battler forgetting his promise...

No it isn't. It's just one of the key factors that make up her psychosynthesis. It's frankly hasty to call that the motive itself.

though if Battler had remembered it she wouldn't have turned into Lion. She would have still been an incest baby, tossed off a cliff by Natsuhi and mutilated.

But at least she wouldn't have snapped and got herself into the ShkanontriceXGeosicattler dilemma in the first place.

I'm being sarcastic so it sounds mean but really, Yasu's motive should have been explained better otherwise what's said isn't enough to justify her actions.

I also agree that Yasu's motive was drawn poorly and wasn't given nearly as much as focus as it was required in order for the reader's to understand it perfectly. This was intentional because Ryukishi (who seems very attached to it by the way) didn't want readers who didn't solve it understand a fuck about it.

But at least he should let those who did understand it 100% without whacking their brains.

I think it's more correct to say that a side of Yasu knew it wasn't Battler's fault while another found more easier to blame him.

Yasu says she doesn't have the right to blame Battler, which can be more frustrating than actually hating him. After all, she admits it was all in her head.

Battler sin isn't breaking the promise, it's not even remembering about it.

Well, more than Battler being a moron for forgiving her is: all of sudden the game present Yasu/Beato as someone who's not at fault for what she did. Actually it's Battler who caused all of this so he's the one to blame and that has to apologize.

Nope, this isn't Battler's fault. He may have 'caused' this unintenionally, but this only means he spinned some gears without even realizing. I think his change of heart towards Beato has more to do with Rokenjima Prime.

Rosa was a bad mother but this didn't necessary mean she hated Maria, just that she failed at being a mother because she chosed using a behaviour that had been used by her relatives on her.

Rosa does love Maria. She's just terrible, terrible, terrible at controling her emotions and keeping her cool, which makes her an awful parent. Love isn't all it takes in order to raise a child properly.

Yes, she has issues so it's understable she has troubles but the point is she's the one trapping herself in this vicious circle.

Yes, that's pretty much what I was saying.